Book/Movie Recommendations Related to the Link Between 'Insanity' and Spirituality?

[Alex-The-Iceman]

Originally Posted by Neville

With that in mind, I do see why some spiritual people, eg David Koresh and the Reverend Jim Jones might be considered insane.

The Film documenting Jim Jones story is called Trajedy in Guyana and was made in 1980.

Thanks for mentioning those people as well as the movie; more recommendations like this would be awesome.

Originally Posted by im.actually.you

i don't remember exactly but i think someone was trying to show a link between a shamans brain and a schizophrenics brain, that there was very little difference.

That's very very interesting, if you happen to remember where you read/saw that please let me know.

Originally Posted by im.actually.you

I skimmed through quick, so im sorry if im repeating it. Id reccomend jacobs ladder. I cant explain to much with out spoiling it. Its about a post nam soldier. Very interesting.

Even better, which you probably know is The Wall by pink floyd ( album and movie). It has some spirituality, but more deals with someone gong down into psycosis. The album darkside of the moon, by pink flyd deals with "madness and random life oddities"

I LOVE Jacob's Ladder, it's one of my favourite movies of all time, and so is The Wall actually. I'll give that album a listen, I've heard good things about it but have never given it a throrough listen. Thanks for the suggestions!

Originally Posted by Deusdrum

read 'Valis' by Philip K ****. He was a sci-fi author (his books have been made into movies, Bladerunner, Total Recall, Minority Report, A Scanner Darkly)

Also recommend reading Carl Jung in general, as pertains to this question. He was one of the first, and greatest (imo) people to walk that line between Psychology/Psychiatry and metaphysics/Spirituality.

I'm curious, why are you interested in this particular question? If you care to share, or even know, that is. An area of interest to me as well.

Someone on the forums a long time ago put it in a good way, 'the mystic swims in the same waters that the schizophrenic drowns in' or something to that effect.

Thanks alot for the suggestions, that book sounds particulary interesting.

I've heard of Carl Jung before but never really got the chance to lean about his ideas and such, I'll definitely do some research.

I don't really know why I'm so fascinated by this topic; I think I just find it amazing that the mind has the power to interpret the 'ramblings' of a so-called 'mad-man' as 'insane' and how easily people throw them into this category. And on the other hand, some other individuals can listen to the ssame ramblings and understand the truth in their words. It amazes me.

I really like the quote you added at the bottom of your post too, really well-worded.

Alex... i suggested the floyd and jacobs ladder LOL

Really listin to darkside of the moon, theres little tidbits of sayings thron in, as well as some deep deep lyrics

Originally Posted by Deusdrum

read 'Valis' by Philip K ****. He was a sci-fi author (his books have been made into movies, Bladerunner, Total Recall, Minority Report, A Scanner Darkly)

Valis (acronym for Vast Active Living Intelligence System) is largely autobiographical. He kept what he called an 'exegesis' or something, a journal that apparently takes up 2 entire full sized filing cabinets about his thoughts/experiences with his psychological-metaphysical state. It is referred to in the book. You can also find information online about him and his experiences if you dig around.

He ended up in a mental institute in Vancouver for awhile, and is a good example of what you are asking for.

Also recommend reading Carl Jung in general, as pertains to this question. He was one of the first, and greatest (imo) people to walk that line between Psychology/Psychiatry and metaphysics/Spirituality.

I'm curious, why are you interested in this particular question? If you care to share, or even know, that is. An area of interest to me as well.

Someone on the forums a long time ago put it in a good way, 'the mystic swims in the same waters that the schizophrenic drowns in' or something to that effect.

funny u say that quote, did you see mine with how someone was trying to show a link between a shamans brain and a schizophrenics? i forget where i saw it but i will look it up shortly, just thought the timing was funny

I can't think of any specific books or movies that came to mind dealing with insanity and spirituality.
"One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" did deal with gentlemen in an asylum, and I remember studying this novel in high school. Several of my classmates were particularly upset with how the "inmates" were treated with drugs, shock therapy, etc. and our teacher had to remind them that it was just a novel. Eventually he brought in a social worker from a real psychiatric hospital to ensure them that most of the methods portrayed in the book were not common practice. How "spiritual" these people were was not really discussed, however at the end The Chief does escape, and it has always been a spiritual scene for me, with a native aspect to it.
"Patch Adams" was also considered crazy, and his intentions were simply to help other people. For me, he was a spiritual healer with an MD. I did have the privilege of seeing him speak in person, and his message is very spiritual and uplifting. To me, helping your fellow man (or woman) while being at peace with yourself is a huge part of my spirituality.
Finally, the second step in AA is "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." Spirituality is so entwined in the Twelve Steps of AA, and that step links the craziness to the eventual enlightenment that can be found.
Thank you for your interest.

Laughter and love,

Richinside

[Alex-The-Iceman]

Originally Posted by Time

Alex... i suggested the floyd and jacobs ladder LOL

Really listin to darkside of the moon, theres little tidbits of sayings thron in, as well as some deep deep lyrics

Woops, sorry about that man haha, I forgot to change the username in the quote thing. I'll definitely check out that album, it sounds great.

[Alex-The-Iceman]

Originally Posted by Richinside

I can't think of any specific books or movies that came to mind dealing with insanity and spirituality.
"One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" did deal with gentlemen in an asylum, and I remember studying this novel in high school. Several of my classmates were particularly upset with how the "inmates" were treated with drugs, shock therapy, etc. and our teacher had to remind them that it was just a novel. Eventually he brought in a social worker from a real psychiatric hospital to ensure them that most of the methods portrayed in the book were not common practice. How "spiritual" these people were was not really discussed, however at the end The Chief does escape, and it has always been a spiritual scene for me, with a native aspect to it.
"Patch Adams" was also considered crazy, and his intentions were simply to help other people. For me, he was a spiritual healer with an MD. I did have the privilege of seeing him speak in person, and his message is very spiritual and uplifting. To me, helping your fellow man (or woman) while being at peace with yourself is a huge part of my spirituality.
Finally, the second step in AA is "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." Spirituality is so entwined in the Twelve Steps of AA, and that step links the craziness to the eventual enlightenment that can be found.
Thank you for your interest.

Laughter and love,

Richinside

Thanks alot for this insight, I'll take a look into the books and the speaker that you mentioned, as well as the 12 steps of AA.

Hmmm...jacobs ladder is about a man dying.

I dont know...I guess youve confirmed the glamorisation of mental illness into something amazingly spiritual and really ignored the indescrepensies in that idea. So next time the loner walks into am american school with a gun and shhots children....will you marvel at mental illness? Or if you lost a child or a friend to suicide, because just for one second they thought they could be someone 'special' amongst their peers...will you celebrate their wonderful spiritual victimhood? When men, women and children are involved in the mass suicide of a cult...do you clap your hands in celebration?

Theres nothing glamerous about mental illness. Its called illness because its not a great place to stay. But there are a lot of sick, horrible things that happen when people do not get help.

[Deusdrum]

Originally Posted by im.actually.you

funny u say that quote, did you see mine with how someone was trying to show a link between a shamans brain and a schizophrenics? i forget where i saw it but i will look it up shortly, just thought the timing was funny

I sort of briefly skimmed past it, i.m., was going to post the quote couple days ago in this thread, but didn't have time, maybe i posted it somewhere else, can't remember. Is a good quote, i remember it, (and again it is very loose paraphrase of original) as i say from someone else, years ago here at S.F. That would be interesting to see, i have been told that being on L.S.D. is similar to being schizophrenic for a brief period of time. New forum rules however, prevent me from commenting upon that.

Alex - i would aslo recommend the book 'Varieties of Religious Experience' by William James. He was one of the pioneering, very influential original people in the beginning of the field of psychology, and he talks about many different experiences people have, from a sound, grounded, though also open minded point of view. I myself have only read the book once, but its going to be the next book i read when i get a chance.

*edit* - I've had friends, one in particular, who would be a perfect prototype for your question, who's experiences i've been privy to both from his telling, and as a first hand witness, that are extreme, which i will not say anything further on, as it is not my place to, out of respect for his privacy regarding his own experiences. Suffice it to say, the rabbit hole goes as deep as you care to take it, though in my opinion, the path is a lot better if one can minimize the or avoid any kind of 'cognitive dissonance' or discrepancies between mental, physical, emotional, Spiritual states; mental illness.

For example, being overly self-conscious can lead to a kind of paranoia. Are you worried that everyone is looking at you? Well, they probably are, or will be, if you keep thinking that way, not because anyone is after you necessarily, but because your worry of 'everyone i looking at me' is giving off the vibe which causes people to look at you.. kind of a self fulfilling prophecy/law of attraction/catch 22. Drug abuse is very problematic also, in my opinion, for inducing schizophrenic episodes. A way of showing a person that the way in which they are dealing with their current psychological situation is not healthy. Trust in a Higher power is imperative,(or trust in the Self) as is a focus on a positive, selfless kind of lifestyle, a focus on solutions, rather than dwelling too long on the problem, or wallowing in the mire. My 2 penneth.

[7luminaries]

Agree with refs for Jacob's Ladder. IMO a brilliant movie about the link between (perceived) insanity...and spirituality...and about perspective and journey...and acceptance and forgiveness...and spiritual progress.

I went to a really interesting talk recently abt madness and freedom...right there in the title I knew the gent knew of what he spoke, LOL...it was about the link between institutionalisation of madness and the extension of the civil state and "freedoms" gained through centralised representative (loosely speaking)governments. Basically he who rules makes the rules...including what is "madness" and who is "mad". Depending on the degree of general insanity (meaning majority rule) and conformity, madness can be narrowly defined...or extended to include large swaths of "undesirables".

Very very cool talk.

[Alex-The-Iceman]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Agree with refs for Jacob's Ladder. IMO a brilliant movie about the link between (perceived) insanity...and spirituality...and about perspective and journey...and acceptance and forgiveness...and spiritual progress.

I went to a really interesting talk recently abt madness and freedom...right there in the title I knew the gent knew of what he spoke, LOL...it was about the link between institutionalisation of madness and the extension of the civil state and "freedoms" gained through centralised representative (loosely speaking)governments. Basically he who rules makes the rules...including what is "madness" and who is "mad". Depending on the degree of general insanity (meaning majority rule) and conformity, madness can be narrowly defined...or extended to include large swaths of "undesirables".

Very very cool talk.

That's really interesting. I've been contemplating this alot lately, and I wonder how those who are called 'insane' in the Western culture would be viewed in other places where they are more in tune with a sense of spirituality. I think that maybe they'd be considered as having a great gift, and maybe since it would be more accepted they would be encouraged to develop it and use it, instead of just calling them insane and sticking them in the nut ward. I think in the West we put much too much of an emphasis on science and the need to 'label' everything, and once you put that label on someone (like schizoprenic for example) you don't leave any room for alternative ideas about what schizophrenia is, etc.