Why? (Part 2)

Hello everyone. I'll cut right to the chase:

I really enjoyed the original thread on this subject! I appreciate the discussions there, for I joined that thread this morning intending to enjoy myself, and it was the most fun thus far I've had while being a member here (I could make a joke about that last part, but... ). I found it to be very hilarious, through the lens of perception with which I chose to view it through. This thread here begins with a slightly different focus, although it is indeed about joy and non-dual pointing (which are really one and the same):

Ramana Maharshi did indeed teach that words, at best, can be pointers to Truth, our True Nature, words simply being interpretations in themselves. Ramana also demonstrated in this teaching, however, that unless one BEGINS from a feeling-place of well-being--and not angst--then the fruits of one's "sharing of insight" will be experienced as sour, and not deeply enjoyed. This is very timely for this personality here, for I very recently was reminded from within to "loosen the knot" and "soften the glare" (as Lao Tzu suggested in Tao Te Ching) when it comes to how I express the consciousness that flows through me; and several friends here have been very instrumental in this reminder.

In pointing to our Divine Nature, often through silent example, Ramana didn't intend for anyone to see everything in the phenomenal illusion as "****.," however (in a negative sense), and expend one's energy in a holy crusade to wake people up from their "****." I am clearly seeing that pointing to one's True Self is only beneficial to the "pointer" if the sharing is done in a True Spirit of Joy, with loving tact and diplomacy. Ramana Maharshi was one who truly "let things slide," more than anything else (meaning that he was predominantly non-defensive about what he shared), and would often remain silent when confronted with an energy of disagreement or dislike.

Living the "Why"

The question "Why?" "Why identify with thoughts?" Well, to be honest, even one like Ramana still had some identification with thoughts, or else there would have been no "Ramana Maharshi" to apparently exist in the world! Egoic identification is required for there to be a bodily identity (and here, "ego" is defined as simply "consciousness of separation"), and so even those who may appear to be the "most enlightened" must have an awareness of existing with what appears by the human eyes to be "a body separated in time and space from other bodies." Proposing any "Why" question to groups of people is often met by some with a clever answer of "Why not?" And rightfully so, for when we ask this question we are really asking it for ourselves, and being concerned over "why" others choose what they choose is fruitless and none of our business. Though, I admit, all actions do bear fruit at the opposite end of the stick, so to speak, meaning that there's a positive benefit that is available through any action, even "mistakes," and that ultimately there are no "mistakes" in life, just opportunities for expansion of consciousness for awakening. There is a Way (a Tao) of "Living the Why," meaning that through silent, inner SELF-RECOGNITION and security in one's Inner Being, one can be so in alignment with identifying oneself as the True Self, that "others," of their own choosing, may feel inspired to enquire within and ask the "Why" questions for themselves. Offering help is beneficial when deeply inspired from a place of APPRECIATING ONESELF and APPRECIATING one's brothers and sisters; and this is why the sage of Arunachala, Sri Ramana Maharshi, very often didn't speak at all through words, for he intuitively knew about the nature of "speak less, do more," as a way (that works well for some) to express Pure Awareness with less distortion. Rather than egoicly perceiving others as "asleep" and making a big emphasis on "It's all ****.," the True Essence of a sage when interacting with "spiritual seekers" is to radiate well-being, adding energy to their spiritual strengths (through a deeply-felt sense of Oneness), for the sage is focused in such a way within for him/herself.

Cynicism and criticism of our brothers and sisters is never the highest way, I am seeing more and more. My deep appreciation to all here for being powerful catalysts of love, and I look forward to enjoying more giving of appreciation and joyous laughter.

[sound]

Now that is worth framing lol ... a beautiful and very perceptive 'opening post' Simon ...what a brilliant idea to start another chapter! lol ... I look forward to each new page ... much gratitude to you

Originally Posted by sound

Now that is worth framing lol ... a beautiful and very perceptive 'opening post' Simon ...what a brilliant idea to start another chapter! lol ... I look forward to each new page ... much gratitude to you

I'm glad you enjoyed. Deep appreciation, Sound!

[BlueSky]

I enjoyed it as well Simon. Mostly in how you presented it.
I don't have much more to add as I don't ask why anymore.
True self has less and less meaning to me.
True self implies that there is a false self. It promotes seperation.
My 80 year old catholic grandmother is no less her true self than Ramana.
The tribesman indoctrinated in his culture knows his ways and it really isn't fair to think that he should transcend that to find something else called his true self.
It happens but it also doesn't happen.
I think Tzu hit it on the head in regards to what growth is and that is recognizing that the one is part of the whole and therefore is also the whole.
One doesn't necessarily need to "understand" the whole to know this.
OK I'm rambling....................anyways.....nice post my friend.
Blessings, James

Greetings..

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

I enjoyed it as well Simon. Mostly in how you presented it.
I don't have much more to add as I don't ask why anymore.
True self has less and less meaning to me.
True self implies that there is a false self. It promotes seperation.
My 80 year old catholic grandmother is no less her true self than Ramana.
The tribesman indoctrinated in his culture knows his ways and it really isn't fair to think that he should transcend that to find something else called his true self.
It happens but it also doesn't happen.
I think Tzu hit it on the head in regards to what growth is and that is recognizing that the one is part of the whole and therefore is also the whole.
One doesn't necessarily need to "understand" the whole to know this.
OK I'm rambling....................anyways.....nice post my friend.
Blessings, James

Hi WS: First, a very humble thanks for the kind words, but.. i truly "stand on the shoulders of giants", advancing their clarity forward.. i understand growth as the greater clarity and realization of my relationship with my wholeness, and.. the liberating understanding that Wholeness is evolving its own self-awareness, too.. "as above, so below".. there is a very liberating and deeply comforting 'awareness' that there is an unfathomnable infinity of unmanifested potential which 'we' as One will explore for an eternity of eternities..

One of my favorite 'sayings', i don't know if it's original (i hope it is), but it sounds too good to come from me: "We are traveling to where we have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.. the vehicle is awareness.. ".. Now, i place little or no value on judgements like ignorance or enlightenment, but.. that phrase puts the 'journey' in a comfortable perspective, for me..

Be well, all else is..

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Hi WS: First, a very humble thanks for the kind words, but.. i truly "stand on the shoulders of giants", advancing their clarity forward.. i understand growth as the greater clarity and realization of my relationship with my wholeness, and.. the liberating understanding that Wholeness is evolving its own self-awareness, too.. "as above, so below".. there is a very liberating and deeply comforting 'awareness' that there is an unfathomnable infinity of unmanifested potential which 'we' as One will explore for an eternity of eternities..

One of my favorite 'sayings', i don't know if it's original (i hope it is), but it sounds too good to come from me: "We are traveling to where we have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.. the vehicle is awareness.. ".. Now, i place little or no value on judgements like ignorance or enlightenment, but.. that phrase puts the 'journey' in a comfortable perspective, for me..

Be well, all else is..

The thing is Tzu....the magic in the statement that I hilighted is all but gone for me.
I use to find awe in contemplating the unknown, the unmanifested potential...but I just don't anymore. I am most certainly open and in a state of readiness for anything to manifest itself but the reality is that life has become quite ordinary for me in a good way.
Maybe its just me. Maybe I earned a break so to speak....lol
I truly hope that there is more like you state.....but for now my journey has stopped. I don't feel like we as me, are going anywhere and yet there is a peace in that.
It is kind of hard to explain.
James

I appreciate the new tone of this thread and find it heartwarming

awakening however, in my own experience, even though it brings deep feelings of peace is not just about love and joy

it's about being free, free to be who you are, to express as you do, in the way you do, it's about allowing the present moment to be as it is

so the personality is what it is and expresses in the way it does, there's no problem with that here, after all, it helped to spawn this thread

it's about love

but love of the truth

not some idea we have about how wonderful and sugar coated reality is

it's about surrender of all that you think and all that you are

is there a person here that's part of a whole?

or is that just more interpretation by a now, spiritualized ego?

and when i read something like this:

"Hi WS: First, a very humble thanks for the kind words, but.. i truly "stand on the shoulders of giants", advancing their clarity forward.."

well... i won't say anything, it literally speaks for itself

c'mon people shake yourselves hard!

you've seen through the facade of interpretation by thoughts

don't fall back into it again!

stay aware and present!

that is the only truth!

Originally Posted by din

I appreciate the new tone of this thread and find it heartwarming

awakening however, in my own experience, even though it brings deep feelings of peace is not just about love and joy

it's about being free, free to be who you are, to express as you do, in the way you do, it's about allowing the present moment to be as it is

so the personality is what it is and expresses in the way it does, there's no problem with that here, after all, it helped to spawn this thread

it's about love

but love of the truth

not some idea we have about how wonderful and sugar coated reality is

it's about surrender of all that you think and all that you are

is there a person here that's part of a whole?

or is that just more interpretation by a now, spiritualized ego?

and when i read something like this:



well... i won't say anything, it literally speaks for itself

c'mon people shake yourselves hard!

you've seen through the facade of interpretation by thoughts

don't fall back into it again!

stay aware and present!

that is the only truth!

Your drone is becoming irrelevant, Din.. no longer amusing, it's desperation, and yours, are just glaring examples of someone seeking to validate their identity, 'Din' seeking relevance.. stop preaching, stop dodging honest dialogue, stop.. oh, nevermind, its just easier to ignore you.. you delude yourself that any attention, even the negative attention given to your absurdities, is better than no attention.. which is why you return, again and again..

Be well, Din.. all else is, regardless of your sermons..

[Mathew James]

Originally Posted by din

...it's about love

but love of the truth

not some idea we have about how wonderful and sugar coated reality is

it's about surrender of all that you think and all that you are

is there a person here that's part of a whole?
or is that just more interpretation by a now, spiritualized ego?...



...you've seen through the facade of interpretation by thoughts

don't fall back into it again!

stay aware and present!

that is the only truth!

Are we all not part of humanity? Humanity is what our wholeness is.


When or How, would a person discover 'the only truth' if they never spend alone time with their own thoughts? The present stillness in our thoughts and awareness of the movement within those thoughts is a journey that can be shared, where truth is only in the eyes of the beholder.

mj

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

I enjoyed it as well Simon. Mostly in how you presented it.
I don't have much more to add as I don't ask why anymore.

I hear you, brother James. That's it! I "disabled" the Why in the original post up there, putting the emphasis on Self-appreciation, well-being. The "True Self" as I intuitively know it is not about degrees nor polarity of any kind. It makes no comparison between anyone whatsoever. It is simply about an inner recognition of What we all Are in Essence. That's it. That, of course, is equivalent to the "All" and "All-That-Is" that is intuitively referred to.