my partner's parenting choices

[wolfgaze]

Originally Posted by rainbow.sprinkles

he does have emotional issues, as do I, which I believe I mentioned in my original post. I've come a long way in the past ten years and I fully believe he can too.

I can respect and appreciate your optimism and positivity surrounding the possibility for his improvement... However one should also acknowledge and be aware that your personal achievement/success does not speak to the chances or likelihood that someone else will experience the same - you know? You and him may share the same condition or struggle - but you are not the same person and you have your own unique and individual qualities that influence how you experience your lives. The internal drive, motivation, and willpower has to be present to change/improve/refine oneself (as I'm sure you know) and even though another person may be making every effort to support and encourage you to do so - that person cannot do the difficult inner-work and heavy-lifting for you. So the question is does he truly want to change and is he going to demonstrate the effort and determination that is required to do so?

Originally Posted by rainbow sprinkles

and I do fully intend to have very specific and clear conversations with him about the way any child of ours will be parented, at some point long before a child is actually born.

Actions speak louder than words. A person could make you promises that they are going to be and act a certain way in the future... A person could tell you what you want to hear in order to appease you and avoid conflict in the present. However in this context, he already has a child right now and if he cannot demonstrate that he can uphold a certain standard of conduct with his own child, why would someone feel confident that he would make those changes for another child conceived with another partner? What I mean is that if he cannot prove that he's capable of parenting a certain way with the child he's interacting with now - why should you trust that he'll do so with you and a new child?

Think about this, what will happen when a new baby/child starts engaging in the same types of behaviors that his current son is engaging in and which are causing him to get very angry and lose his composure? That behavior from the new child is going to trigger the same emotional response that he had conditioned himself to react with and exhibit with his own child. It's like when someone gets out of a toxic/unhealthy relationship, then starts a new relationship later down the road with someone else. If/when that new partner does anything that resembles or reminds that person of the former partner and the previous dynamic - that new interaction is going to trigger that person and cause the stored emotional energy (from the previous relationship) to rise to the surface. Like re-opening an old wound. That person will likely react/respond to the new partner as if they were the individual who*was responsible for creating those difficult emotions that surfaced. I believe in psychology this is referred as 'transference'...

The other thing is, your speaking with him in advance and laying down rules/standards of conduct regarding parenting a new child is not going to address the underlying psychological and emotional issues that he's carrying around with him and which are influencing how he reacts to these current situations... Is he going to counseling/therapy or planning to? Or is he doing anything on his own accord to try and work through these issues and better himself?

I just want to be clear that I'm not suggesting nor implying that this individual is a 'lost cause' or incapable of change. What I'm saying is it would be a mistake to carry the expectation that just because you'll 'have a say' in the matter that someone will be likely to change his parenting behavior with a future child but who is not actively demonstrating the capability to make those changes in the present with his own child. That should be your standard of proof - not waiting until you conceive a child and seeing how it plays out while remaining optimistic. Lastly, you should make sure you spend sufficient time examining and reflecting upon to what extent your own desire and aspiration to conceive a child may influence how you perceive these circumstances and what influence it may have in your decision making process. In other words, could a strong desire/wanting/aspiration being present potentially serve to affect your judgement or create bias in your evaluation of the circumstances under which you will pursue that goal. You know the "my biological clock is ticking" feeling and the line of thinking one will be running out of opportunities (finding a viable partner) to make something happen. I'm not presuming that this is the case with you - I'm just throwing this out there because it would be applicable to anyone who is in your position who is considering conceiving a child and also questioning the suitability of their partner's parenting abilities....

[joyfirst]

I think you got some great advice here. Unless he is ready to do some serious work with himself and actually does it, and you can see lasting change in the way he treats you and his child, I wouldn't consider marrying him and even less having a child with him.
And if he is abusing his child regularly emotionally or physically, you have to report him to social services. The abuse you describe can escalate very quickly. Especially so, that he is abusing a tiny child. This baby deserves to be loved and nurtured and to feel safe.

[Captain]

It appears you are indulging yourselves in your "mental illnesses", which are NEVER an excuse for a father cursing and yelling at a toddler AKA illegal emotional and verbal abuse. Grow up!

[rainbow.sprinkles]

Originally Posted by wolfgaze

I can respect and appreciate your optimism and positivity surrounding the possibility for his improvement... However one should also acknowledge and be aware that your personal achievement/success does not speak to the chances or likelihood that someone else will experience the same - you know? You and him may share the same condition or struggle - but you are not the same person and you have your own unique and individual qualities that influence how you experience your lives. The internal drive, motivation, and willpower has to be present to change/improve/refine oneself (as I'm sure you know) and even though another person may be making every effort to support and encourage you to do so - that person cannot do the difficult inner-work and heavy-lifting for you. So the question is does he truly want to change and is he going to demonstrate the effort and determination that is required to do so?

I realize this. my optimism comes from many conversations about our struggles and him having expressed desires for self improvement and to get involved in treatments like what I have been through.

Originally Posted by wolfgaze

if he cannot prove that he's capable of parenting a certain way with the child he's interacting with now - why should you trust that he'll do so with you and a new child?

I do expect to see changes made in his negative behaviours towards his child, that would be part of the conversation and my expectations. and for the record, he treats me very well.

Originally Posted by wolfgaze

Think about this, what will happen when a new baby/child starts engaging in the same types of behaviors that his current son is engaging in and which are causing him to get very angry and lose his composure? That behavior from the new child is going to trigger the same emotional response that he had conditioned himself to react with and exhibit with his own child.

it's not so much a conditioned response as it is simply an instant reaction. when you have serious issues with emotion regulation, it is extremely difficult to stop and think before a reaction occurs.

Originally Posted by wolfgaze

The other thing is, your speaking with him in advance and laying down rules/standards of conduct regarding parenting a new child is not going to address the underlying psychological and emotional issues that he's carrying around with him and which are influencing how he reacts to these current situations... Is he going to counseling/therapy or planning to? Or is he doing anything on his own accord to try and work through these issues and better himself?

I agree about the underlying issues. in the past he has been diagnosed with everything under the sun (except the thing we figured out he actually has), and so he's had lots of counselling in the past, but unfortunately it's extremely difficult - impossible, really - to get long term counselling with the same person for free or very cheap (he's on disability so has very little money). and he's found that seeing different people every time or having a limited number of sessions with someone doesn't give him the chance to really dig deep and get to the underlying issues that really need to be addressed. he has expressed interest in going through the same DBT skills program that I recently went through, it's just a matter of getting him to see his doctor and get a referal to it and then of course there is a waitlist. and between him being a full time father and struggling with depression, it's a bit difficult to get him to go out and do these things. I do think I'll have a talk with him about it soon, he's probably going to need a push from me to do it.

Originally Posted by wolfgaze

could a strong desire/wanting/aspiration being present potentially serve to affect your judgement or create bias in your evaluation of the circumstances under which you will pursue that goal. You know the "my biological clock is ticking" feeling and the line of thinking one will be running out of opportunities (finding a viable partner) to make something happen. I'm not presuming that this is the case with you - I'm just throwing this out there because it would be applicable to anyone who is in your position who is considering conceiving a child and also questioning the suitability of their partner's parenting abilities....

I'm aware this is part of the equation. fortunately, we both have medical issues which make conceiving.... difficult. so it's not likely I'll get knocked up without active effort which would only come after making an official decision to do so.

[rainbow.sprinkles]

Originally Posted by joyfirst

I think you got some great advice here. Unless he is ready to do some serious work with himself and actually does it, and you can see lasting change in the way he treats you and his child, I wouldn't consider marrying him and even less having a child with him.
And if he is abusing his child regularly emotionally or physically, you have to report him to social services. The abuse you describe can escalate very quickly. Especially so, that he is abusing a tiny child. This baby deserves to be loved and nurtured and to feel safe.

as I've said, there is no abuse happening. yes, he could be a gentler parent. so could many, many people. his child is well loved, nurtured, and safe.

[rainbow.sprinkles]

Originally Posted by Captain

It appears you are indulging yourselves in your "mental illnesses", which are NEVER an excuse for a father cursing and yelling at a toddler AKA illegal emotional and verbal abuse. Grow up!

we certainly do not indulge ourselves in our illness. I've been working on myself since the day I found out what I had. multiple kinds of therapy, counselling, support groups, active effort towards inner work, self awareness, etc. he only recently realized what he has, after learning about what I have from me, so he's had far less time to work on himself. but he is working. please leave yourself out of this discussion if you don't have anything helpful or kind to say. thank you.

[wolfgaze]

I appreciate you responding to my post and providing additional information for clarity... Thank you...

Originally Posted by rainbow.sprinkles

it's not so much a conditioned response as it is simply an instant reaction. when you have serious issues with emotion regulation, it is extremely difficult to stop and think before a reaction occurs.

What I meant by 'conditioned' response is that when you have a certain stimulus (in this case his son's behavior) paired with a certain response (his emotional outbursts), the more these two elements are experienced together over time the more conditioned/ingrained that reaction is going to be within him. Therefore it's like it becomes an automatic response as a learned behavior - and there is the increased likelihood that he will be inclined to respond/react in the same manner even around other children just as long as their behavior reminds him of what he has experienced in the past with his own child. For instance if he was babysitting a nephew/niece, or if he had a relative who brought young children over and they were acting up or engaging in behavior that normally triggers him when his own child behaves that way - just being exposed to those similar circumstances is going to be likely to elicit the same emotional response within him due to the association.

[FairyCrystal]

I understand you don't just want to leave your partner, and that you defend him and don't want to start a major argument with him about his child. In a way you are limited, because it isn't your child.
But ... you are an adult and you have noticed things aren't right. Maybe he loves his son, maybe he can be loving, but that doesn't outweigh the other things you describe he does.
Extreme emotional reactions can seriously harm a young child, regardless of the man being loving at other times. A parent that goes back and forth between emotions that are so extreme, is very confusing to a child and doesn't offer it the safety it needs to explore and grow.
In a way, the fact that he goes back and forth between these emotions of extreme anger and loving behaviour, makes it worse --> The child never knows what to expect from his father.
And I know it's not your child, but because you are an adult, are there, and have noticed abuse, you have an obligation to do something to protect this child.
You may think it isn't abuse, because it is difficult to think of the man you love as an abuser, but it still IS abuse...
Abuse is not just physical. Mental, verbal, emotional abuse exist too, and are as bad as physical abuse. Possibly even worse. Even to an adult this is very detrimental, let alone such a young child.
Please remember that physical abuse will get noticed and someone could take action to protect the one harmed. Emotional, verbal and mental abuse can go unnoticed for years and years.
He cannot remove himself from the situation, he's dependent on adults.

Anyway, I done my part. I can only pray you do your utmost to help keep this child safe.

[joyfirst]

I am listening to Joseph Murphy's The Power of the Subconscious Mind, and he says, that we can say affirmations with conviction to change other people's life from far away. What if we all agree to send love to the baby, Rainbow.sprinkles, and the father, and affirm:
"This child is now nurtured and loved at all times. The whole family now lives in harmony and peace."

[rainbow.sprinkles]

Originally Posted by joyfirst

I am listening to Joseph Murphy's The Power of the Subconscious Mind, and he says, that we can say affirmations with conviction to change other people's life from far away. What if we all agree to send love to the baby, Rainbow.sprinkles, and the father, and affirm:
"This child is now nurtured and loved at all times. The whole family now lives in harmony and peace."

I'm not averse to anyone who feels so inclined sending some positive loving energy towards us. it can only help

a lovely idea, thank you