When the Ego hinders the spirit

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello Lorelyen.
Re your post above. As a matter of interest--to me, though possibly to nobody else--. Is the suggestion put forward in post 55 page 6 on this thread an untutored attempt to describe something of the thinking which you outline in your post above? Lacking the knowledge of the the terminology which you have used I find myself unable to judge if this is indeed the case. I am genuinely interested to know the thoughts regarding this subject as put forward by others. Cheers. petex

You raised some interesting points in that post, particularly "I think the mind needs affirmation of being for complete and proper function-mental, physical and emotional. Such affirmation will ideally result from the appropriate nurture and wise unconditional loving acceptance from carers during formative years."

It seems to be agreed that how the brain develops depends on the quality of caring during the earliest years, not just the information that goes into it, its actual growth. There's quite a lot of literature out there on it. So you're right.

I'm growing increasingly interested in the neuroscience behind much of what passes as "spirituality" and psychology. It hasn't got all the answers by any means but has more answers than a lot of populist literature on spirituality. I don't want to sound too enthusiastic here because people have their beliefs and as you say, hardly anyone will be interested.

The ego seems to be established in very early years as infants become self-aware. Sounds obvious but some of the discussion here overlooks that. It is, to me, the reacting and thinking brain responding to the person's environment: recognition, threat assessment; possible actions; reward/punishment; monitoring the outcome etc, all referring to and building on experience. Much happens when things impinge on the senses before they reach conscious awareness. Like, encountering an unfamiliar face: judgements are made (about fight/flight, safe or freeze) and attractiveness, emotional expression, etc. That takes less than 1/10th of a second then... you're aware of the face. It's been called "the mind". To me it's the brain doing some work!
.

[weareunity]

Thanks Lorelyen for the info regarding the thinking of others on the subject of ego which may have some similarity to the untutored pondering path I follow.

Thanks also for sharing your own interesting thoughts on the same subject.

The first sentence of the last paragraph of your post has particularly caught my attention and resulted in some further pondering,--about which I would value your opinion/thoughts.

---That the dawning of self awareness is accompanied by the capacity to begin to experience self doubt. Iam, am I not?--not as a verbalised question of course but requiring affirmation nevertheless.

petex

Originally Posted by Moonglow

What you present, Greenslade, brought the thought; Ego is the self proclaiming itself.

Much like what you present: A sense of I Am. "I Am Spiritual" Playing with this, is an aspect of self proclaiming itself or attaching to an identity. Is this all I Am? What does this mean? In answering the questions and creating more questions, one holds to the formed identity of I Am being Spiritual.

When letting go of the attachment then one frees the mind to explore or notice, I Am is more then just Spiritual. Even in this realization, another attachment in mind may occur. Now I Am blissful, free, no thing.

Again, is this all I Am? The attachment forms patterns in thinking which fortifies the original thought identifying I or what I Am.

They're just thoughts and yes they have impact and can give comfort or dis-ease.
But they change as ones perception changes as one grows. Or they solidify and one gets stuck with in the pattern.

This is somewhat how I come to understand the idea of "ego". It is proclaiming ones identity or what one may identify with. But, it is only a reference point. A way to make sense of oneself as this person being.

Nothing evil with ego, it can get out of balance though. One can become arrogant and/or fearful of losing control. One can form a "false" image of oneself due to trauma or fear of what others my think. This is just how I am looking at it at present.

Ideally it is finding and being in that middle space where the two spheres meet.
The Physical (what forms) and Spiritual ( what inspires, just is).

Now, playing a bit with the thoughts that arise here and how this "I" may get identified.

Sometimes I like things simple. Ego is the construct that takes us through this human existence in whatever shape or form that takes. Sometimes the sense of 'I Am' will become a sense of I am better than everyone else, sometimes 'I Am' will have a sense that I am something more than flesh and blood. I have no problems with my ego and there are those that respect it, I also have a personality that helps me interact with others. I am someone who has a pile of certificates and a couple of bottles of whiskey for being a good guy, and if it's egoic to say "Yeah, go me" I don't care.

There's more going on than just the ego and often that doesn't come into the equation.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Sometimes I like things simple. Ego is the construct that takes us through this human existence in whatever shape or form that takes. Sometimes the sense of 'I Am' will become a sense of I am better than everyone else, sometimes 'I Am' will have a sense that I am something more than flesh and blood. I have no problems with my ego and there are those that respect it, I also have a personality that helps me interact with others. I am someone who has a pile of certificates and a couple of bottles of whiskey for being a good guy, and if it's egoic to say "Yeah, go me" I don't care.

There's more going on than just the ego and often that doesn't come into the equation.

Hi Greenslade,

No argument from me.

Will admit can over analyze the whole thing. Life does and has reflected much more then just one aspect of this self.

We are multi-dimensional on so many levels. In the long run ,for me, that is what makes the journey that much more and exciting.

Yeah, should give the self a pat the back for a job well done and surviving. Feel not taught this enough or encouraged enough to do so. Took a lot of hard work and effort to get where I am and feel from what you have presented the same goes.

Others may see it and feel it different, so be it. Again reflecting the many colors reflected through the spectrum.

Not to drift to far off top. Just find there is more to all this then what is thought or even realized. Which creates a pretty interesting trip.

[Rain95]

I would just take limited responsibility for the creation of my ego. Our human bodies and the minds (persons) they create is a complex computer like thing. Part of the deign includes a memory that stores everything we hear, taste, experience and even think. Then we have this complex pleasure and pain system installed. We are also conditioned by the culture and society we grow up in. This machine is born with emotional and physical needs to maintain itself in a healthy way.

My view is we (consciousness) merges with this human animal around the time of birth. So then our role in the "creation" of the ego is to just accept the computer is us. So when the body hurts, we say I hurt. When we eat ice cream and like it, we say oh I liked it. We accept the bodies thoughts as our own. We have merged with this human animal/mind and feel what it feels,think what it thinks, carry around the memories of what it experienced from the day it was born to the day it dies.

The philosophical idea of separating consciousness from body/ego as an experience is interesting and many have had some kind of success with it, so they say, which in some cases has resulted in the formation of world religions.

The journey to stop identifying with the things of the body and it's mind is rare and difficult. But then I believe that is the whole point of all of this. This is a game of sorts designed for one thing. To force the consciousness to increase it's traits of awareness and intelligence.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Rain95

I would just take limited responsibility for the creation of my ego. Our human bodies and the minds (persons) they create is a complex computer like thing. Part of the deign includes a memory that stores everything we hear, taste, experience and even think. Then we have this complex pleasure and pain system installed. We are also conditioned by the culture and society we grow up in. This machine is born with emotional and physical needs to maintain itself in a healthy way.

My view is we (consciousness) merges with this human animal around the time of birth. So then our role in the "creation" of the ego is to just accept the computer is us. So when the body hurts, we say I hurt. When we eat ice cream and like it, we say oh I liked it. We accept the bodies thoughts as our own. We have merged with this human animal/mind and feel what it feels,think what it thinks, carry around the memories of what it experienced from the day it was born to the day it dies.

The philosophical idea of separating consciousness from body/ego as an experience is interesting and many have had some kind of success with it, so they say, which in some cases has resulted in the formation of world religions.

The journey to stop identifying with the things of the body and it's mind is rare and difficult. But then I believe that is the whole point of all of this. This is a game of sorts designed for one thing. To force the consciousness to increase it's traits of awareness and intelligence.

I like your insight. Initially wasn't going to say anything but your insight is relevant imo, one doesn't create ego. Ego is just there. Again nature. Second, ego is part of the subconscious not only the conscious. I love that you bring up the memory matrix.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Greenslade,

No argument from me.

Will admit can over analyze the whole thing. Life does and has reflected much more then just one aspect of this self.

We are multi-dimensional on so many levels. In the long run ,for me, that is what makes the journey that much more and exciting.

Yeah, should give the self a pat the back for a job well done and surviving. Feel not taught this enough or encouraged enough to do so. Took a lot of hard work and effort to get where I am and feel from what you have presented the same goes.

Others may see it and feel it different, so be it. Again reflecting the many colors reflected through the spectrum.

Not to drift to far off top. Just find there is more to all this then what is thought or even realized. Which creates a pretty interesting trip.

When I first really got into Spirituality I had only two questions in my mind. One was regarding the death of my father and the other one was understanding who and what I am, because I;d always Lived my Life thinking I was something more. The first question was well and truly answered and who I am is like chasing goalposts that keep moving.

I have this physical form and through it I can do things like interact with you, the kind of thing most people take for granted. But what happens when you feel a conception to someone? How is that explained? And when you talk to people who remember so many past Lives? That's all 'me', whatever that is and the ego becomes a part of a much larger picture. I think this is what's missing in any discussion about the ego, it's seldom seen as a part of the 'bigger picture' of who and what we are. As soon as we begin to have thoughts that we're more than flesh and bone the ego has something larger than itself to be a part of.

What most never realise is that following the 'Spiritual Path' is ego because it sets people apart from others - which is not Spiritual, ironically.

I have two bottles of fine malt Scotch sitting - well only half a bottle now - that says I'm a good guy. On my wall is a certificate that says I'm regional Unsung Hero and around that are various thank you cards and the like that says the same thing. It's taken a long time to get here but here I am just the same. I have what might be considered as an 'anti-ego', while I'm not lacking self-esteem I have things that I can't acknowledge - like how much good I do for people sometimes and how much people appreciate what I do. In any discussion of the ego that's never even mentioned, as far as I'm aware. I also don't think a Spirituality that only looks through its own lens can possibly understand ego anyway, because Spirituality is a long way short of any real knowledge.

I needed to find out about 'ego' because what was being talked about in the forums didn't make any sense, so I hit Google and did some homework. What I've found is something far beyond all this 'root of all ego' bumph. Th ego doesn't need a 'death' doing to it, it needs people to take responsibility. When that happens a whole new world opens up courtesy of the ego.

Originally Posted by Rain95

I would just take limited responsibility for the creation of my ego. Our human bodies and the minds (persons) they create is a complex computer like thing. Part of the deign includes a memory that stores everything we hear, taste, experience and even think. Then we have this complex pleasure and pain system installed. We are also conditioned by the culture and society we grow up in. This machine is born with emotional and physical needs to maintain itself in a healthy way.

When you start doing a little digging past Spirituality things take an interesting turn, even if you just consider the entirely human/ego side of our 'nature' - whatever that is. You could well be Spiritual because of your genes that have been passed on, had they been switched differently your head would have been hardwired differently and you wouldn't have been able to process anything Spiritual. The other interesting thing is when you look at psychology it can 'map' Spirituality nicely. For instance, being 'Spiritually evolved' is very much like the experiment Pavlov's dogs, and the 'self actualisation' that Spirituality talks about is the top of Maslo's Hierarchy of needs. Having you beliefs validated and your existence acknowledged in some way are also very deep-rooted human needs.

Originally Posted by Rain95

My view is we (consciousness) merges with this human animal around the time of birth. So then our role in the "creation" of the ego is to just accept the computer is us. So when the body hurts, we say I hurt. When we eat ice cream and like it, we say oh I liked it. We accept the bodies thoughts as our own. We have merged with this human animal/mind and feel what it feels,think what it thinks, carry around the memories of what it experienced from the day it was born to the day it dies.

Not sure. I've been looking at material that says the brain has microtubules that are 'quantum capable', which turns everything on its head. Sorry, couldn't resist. That means what's in our skulls is quantum entangled with the Universal probability field, which falls into line with 'We create our own reality' in the way that consciousness affects the results of the double slit experiment.

Originally Posted by Rain95

The philosophical idea of separating consciousness from body/ego as an experience is interesting and many have had some kind of success with it, so they say, which in some cases has resulted in the formation of world religions.

Kind of. Even masters who have transcended their egos there has still bee a sense of 'I am' in some shape or form - some thing/one has had that experience of being beyond ego.

Originally Posted by Rain95

The journey to stop identifying with the things of the body and it's mind is rare and difficult. But then I believe that is the whole point of all of this. This is a game of sorts designed for one thing. To force the consciousness to increase it's traits of awareness and intelligence.

We are Spirit on a human Journey, or words of that ilk. Spirituality is a human construct, not one of Spirit.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

When I first really got into Spirituality I had only two questions in my mind. One was regarding the death of my father and the other one was understanding who and what I am, because I;d always Lived my Life thinking I was something more. The first question was well and truly answered and who I am is like chasing goalposts that keep moving.

I have this physical form and through it I can do things like interact with you, the kind of thing most people take for granted. But what happens when you feel a conception to someone? How is that explained? And when you talk to people who remember so many past Lives? That's all 'me', whatever that is and the ego becomes a part of a much larger picture. I think this is what's missing in any discussion about the ego, it's seldom seen as a part of the 'bigger picture' of who and what we are. As soon as we begin to have thoughts that we're more than flesh and bone the ego has something larger than itself to be a part of.

What most never realise is that following the 'Spiritual Path' is ego because it sets people apart from others - which is not Spiritual, ironically.

I have two bottles of fine malt Scotch sitting - well only half a bottle now - that says I'm a good guy. On my wall is a certificate that says I'm regional Unsung Hero and around that are various thank you cards and the like that says the same thing. It's taken a long time to get here but here I am just the same. I have what might be considered as an 'anti-ego', while I'm not lacking self-esteem I have things that I can't acknowledge - like how much good I do for people sometimes and how much people appreciate what I do. In any discussion of the ego that's never even mentioned, as far as I'm aware. I also don't think a Spirituality that only looks through its own lens can possibly understand ego anyway, because Spirituality is a long way short of any real knowledge.

I needed to find out about 'ego' because what was being talked about in the forums didn't make any sense, so I hit Google and did some homework. What I've found is something far beyond all this 'root of all ego' bumph. Th ego doesn't need a 'death' doing to it, it needs people to take responsibility. When that happens a whole new world opens up courtesy of the ego.

When someone says to me "you're very spiritual", there is a part of me that kind of bulks at it. Perhaps, being labeled or pigeoned-hole doesn't set well with me.
I acknowledge and for the most part thank them for it, but what does it really mean?

For when just going about and living it without needing to talk about, is it seen?
Am I still being "spiritual"? Does it even matter in the long run?

Maybe it is just where my head is at, at present. I have come to realize it is all spiritual, if one perceives it that way. Spirit, goes along with whatever and however one may live it.

Ego was not even a term I used to disguish what part of myself was doing it.
Just noticed, that it was and is the way I think and how it relates with in the brain. But, these are influenced by so many other factors (genetics, history, society, ect) that seem to form my identity.

So, ego is just are part of it all. A concept, teaching if you will of exploring how we may think ourselves to be. This, interests me because have gone through periods in which how I viewed myself was pretty warped. People saw me as a good guy, but there were undercurrents with in me that resisted accepting this fully.

I was kind, but could be sharp at the same time. Some may say my ego was out of balance or took over. But, didn't look at it that way. Asked myself "why is it I treat myself like dirt?" Yes, this may be seen as egotistical, and is, but it was not about battling the "ego". It was about accepting myself.

I am more at peace with all that now. Basically take on the position; Forget 'em if they can't take a joke"

The forums basically has brought a better understanding of what is being referred to by "ego" with in the Eastern teachings/philosophies of it. Which some I have already come across and read, and discussed with friends. These concepts make more sense to me, outside of the no-self bit, but that is another topic all together.

All in all what we do, how we do it, whether one even cares about it seems to play into how ego gets perceived. It kind of rubs me at times how the negatives gets the spotlight. How about all the good stuff we do for each other and is realized, aren't these ego (what is desired) at play as well?

Thank you for your thoughts and insights, Greenslade

[Moonglow]

oops double post