Was Primordal man Conscious?

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by mickiel

No, I am not into scientology. But I do believe that a conscious people will leave some kind of history that their future generate can trace. I mean thats what history of humans is really; tracking the consciousness of our past. Primordal humans lived perhaps millions of years, and yet its as if they left no trace of anything reasonable; its like tracking an animal through history , an animal that left no signs of conscious thinking. Just menial physical things of little significance.

There has to be a credible reason for this; I think its because they were not conscious as we are. Oh they had brains, but consciousness is again, not a physical thing. It has no location within the human body that science has found. Its just there.

Ok, well what is the whole point that you are trying to get at, so what if they weren't as conscious as we are today, what are you trying to say ?.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Ok, well what is the whole point that you are trying to get at, so what if they weren't as conscious as we are today, what are you trying to say ?.

Can't you see one of the things this opens up? I assume you do not believe in creation or creator, but if this is true, its simply more proof that human consciousness didnot evolve, it was " Placed within humans by God." Because Psychoslice, even IF evolution were true, what happened within humans 40,000 years ago that made us turn at a certain point, and simply exploded in a different direction? It had to be Consciousness!

Now IF consciousness evolved and emerged in evolution, When? In what species first? What kind of nervous system was necessary? And exactly how did it begin to govern our behavior?

It had to be consciousness? No! I say twis was teh aliens.

Consciousness: No place in the human body? So if you weren't born with this body, with your mind being conscious, and im not talking about consciousness to make right or wrong decisions, Im talking about consciousness that exists with ALL, within everything in existence.

I could say 'everything', all 'stuff' all energy, whatever you call it is somewhat conscious in the sense that it changes, it progress, its evolves into grander versions of itself, whether that version has more or less intelligence. Its call self organization and is responsible for the development of all this wonder and awe and enigma that exists here in THIS universe.

Not some alternate universe/dimension/reality. Even your so called 'spiritual' experiences, are they not happening here/now/in this reality/ in your body, in your mind, at this time in history? Reality: you are in it. This is it.

Originally Posted by mickiel

... How could we dianois a person as being schizo if they have no consciousness? How can one be mentally ill if they have no mentality to begin with? So If I am correct, then no primordal humans were mentally ill, and they have found no evidence of that. Nor could they then experience ANY problems associated with consciousness, if they had none to begin with.

It is an assumption that because there hasn’t been identified mental illness in ancient humans of over 40,000 years ago that they didn’t have consciousness.

Given that mental illness (madness) has been discussed in all cultures from the time we have via written accounts it, this gives a good indication that this has existed always. There is archaeological ‘evidence from Neolithic times (Varies in different cultures, but est. 10,000BC-6500BC ) of the practice of trepanation (cutting large holes into the skull), possibly as an attempt to cure ailments which may have included mental disorders.[2]’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ntal_disorders

‘Evidence of trepanation has been found in prehistoric human remains from Neolithic times onward. Cave paintings indicate that people believed the practice would cure epileptic seizures, migraines, and mental disorders.]’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanation

While this doesn’t predate the 40,000 year ago threshold you mention, it indicates that we’ve discovered archaeological evidence of surgery for sections of skull removal around 12,000 years ago. That we haven’t discovered evidence of a mental disorder for those in the time frame you’ve mentioned pre-40,000 years ago doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” Dr. Carl Sagan

Originally Posted by mickiel

Thus, if this much is true, then one can subtract a whole legion of human problems that these group of humans couldnot possibly have experienced. Conversely, we can subtract a whole legion of positive human experiences AND growth that these humans were not privy to.

And I maintain that they have not found evidence of either positive or negative experiences in these people that obviously come from being conscious.

You seem to have some personal criteria for how you consider this. I’m not sure why you would see that ancient people of 40,000 years ago wouldn’t be conscious. By conscious, I mean, ‘the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings ... the awareness or perception of something ... the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world.’ The awareness of ancient man’s world would have been that surrounding it, of its immediate environment, not the larger view of the world that we have w/ the benefit of modern technology. To function at all in surviving they would have had to have this consciousness.

As far as consciousness goes about other species, there is a very good argument to be made that they are VERY aware of their surrounding world, perhaps even much more so than humans, albeit their BEing being quite different from our state of BEing.

Originally Posted by mickiel

... I do believe that a conscious people will leave some kind of history that their future generate can trace. ...

“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” Dr. Carl Sagan

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by ete233

Its had to be consciousness? No! I say twis was teh aliens.

No place in the human body? So if you weren't born with this body, with your mind being conscious, and im not talking about consciousness to make right or wrong decisions, Im talking about consciousness that exists with ALL, within everything in existence.
.

In my understanding, consciousness has no location in the body, because it is a Spirit! Almost everyone thinks that consciousness is in their head. This is because when we introspect, we seem to look inward on an inner space somewhere " Behind our eyes." But that is giving " Spatial characther" where there is none! In talking with others we assume this " Space is behind their eyes as well". There is no such space in anyones head at all! There is nothing inside our heads except physiological tissue of one sort or another!

There is no such " Physical organ " that can be called the consciousness organ.

Originally Posted by mickiel

In my understanding, consciousness has no location in the body, because it is a Spirit! Almost everyone thinks that consciousness is in their head. This is because when we introspect, we seem to look inward on an inner space somewhere " Behind our eyes." But that is giving " Spatial characther" where there is none! In talking with others we assume this " Space is behind their eyes as well". There is no such space in anyones head at all! There is nothing inside our heads except physiological tissue of one sort or another!

There is no such " Physical organ " that can be called the consciousness organ.

I could say 'everything', all 'stuff' all energy, whatever you call it is somewhat conscious in the sense that it changes, it progress, its evolves into grander versions of itself, whether that version has more or less intelligence. Its call self organization and is responsible for the development of all this wonder and awe and enigma that exists here in THIS universe. You act if human consciousness is somehow divine and worth more then anything else in existence. To you, of course it is, IT IS YOUR EXISTENCE.

Originally Posted by mickiel

... I assume you do not believe in creation or creator, but if this is true, its simply more proof that human consciousness didnot evolve, it was " Placed within humans by God."

The argument if one does ‘not believe in creation or creator’ that this is ‘simply more proof that human consciousness didnot evolve, it was " Placed within humans by God."’ is just as hard to follow as the argument that ancient humans weren’t aware of their surroundings.

Originally Posted by mickiel

... even IF evolution were true, what happened within humans 40,000 years ago that made us turn at a certain point, and simply exploded in a different direction? It had to be Consciousness!

Now IF consciousness evolved and emerged in evolution, When? In what species first? What kind of nervous system was necessary? And exactly how did it begin to govern our behavior?

That you acknowledge that humans existed far before the Bible’s Adam that you’ve placed at a certain date, is quite interesting w/ consciousness being placed in humans by God. This seems to be picking & choosing as infallible certain things out of the Bible, while disregarding or rewriting other things in the Bible.

Originally Posted by mickiel

In my understanding, consciousness has no location in the body, because it is a Spirit! ...

This spirit is the life force w/o which the being wouldn't be alive.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by mattie

It is an assumption that because there hasn’t been identified mental illness in ancient humans of over 40,000 years ago that they didn’t have consciousness.

Well I simply feel that in order for Dementia to occur, Mentia must first be present. And apparently for hallucinations to occur, consciousness must first be present. In going further, in order for a mind to be considered " Criminal", the mind must first be conscious of crime. So in my view, there was no crime in Primordal man, because they had no consciousness of crime. Neither do animals.