Made in God’s image. Yuk. Not me thanks.

[white pegasus]

bj- you gave SS mis-information=if you want to attempt to avoid looking at it that is your choice. However, you simply want to continue explaining and explaining and then once you have done that you end your posts with lets just leave it at that

So you can leave it wherever you choose. Its your stuff not mine
regards

Originally Posted by sky123

Right, yuk.

Are you sure the Documentary wasn't called The Tanakh

Hehe, I don't thinks so but maybe the Doc got the story from there. ??

Originally Posted by inavalan

Maybe it was Game of Thrones ... Got, not God.

Well, it was definitely a story about a game of thrones. But then when you think about it, that was the story of the world for the vast majority of human history. A rather ruthless struggle for power and domination between humans. Is it any wonder then that when man created an image of God, they created it as a version of a vengeful angry tyrant sitting upon an iron throne. A supreme ruler to which all must bend the knee or face the flames.

And then the King said, "Let us make a God in the image of me."

Originally Posted by inavalan

This explains how to read dogmas, and why they were done that way:

The Purpose of Jesus’ Parables
(Mark 4:10-12; Luke 8:9-10)

10Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”

11He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12Whoever has [knowledge of the mysteries] will be given more [knowledge of the mysteries], and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have [knowledge of the mysteries], even what he has [knowledge of the mysteries] will be taken away from him.
13This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’b

14In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled:

‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people’s heart has grown callous;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn, and I would heal them.’c

16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

I was with you until this part.

12Whoever has [knowledge of the mysteries] will be given more [knowledge of the mysteries], and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have [knowledge of the mysteries], even what he has [knowledge of the mysteries] will be taken away from him.

R U sure about that last knowledge of the mysteries? It seems to contradict the sentence above.

Anyway, what I see in that original passage is more or less analogous to the concept of the Tao (although Jesus may not have called it that). Sometimes, knowledge can be a block to a deeper understanding and wisdom if one relies too much on that knowledge and does not understand its inaccuracy and incompleteness. That is to say once one carves their block (mind) too deeply, what it is carved into can limit what else it could be carved into. Those who have a mindset and appreciation for the mysteries of the Tao, are able to deepen that understanding. Those who become to fixated on the myriad forms themselves, without understanding that they are just pointers to the deeper mystery, become unable to perceive the mystery as they are fixated on the fingers that point to it instead of looking into the mystery. They believe their ever deeper knowledge of the myriad forms will lead them to the deeper understanding, but rather they must give up this complete reliance on that superficial knowledge to gain the greater "knowledge" within the mystery of the Tao.

We begin carving our minds the day we are born. The 'facts and truths' we learn, preclude competing facts and truths, and hence can become a block to greater or deeper understanding. We must therefore un-carve those minds, or be "born again", to allow our minds to see beyond the 'knowledge' we have already learned and accepted as fact. Its all about freeing one's mind from the prison of 'facts and truths' it has put itself into. One need not forget all they have learned, but rather they must learn that the 'know-ledge' they know to be the truth, is always incomplete, and should not be used as a block to greater exploration.

When Jesus came along preaching about a God of love and mercy, many could not hear what he had to say, because they already had an image of God that was in contradiction to the one he was preaching. They needed to give up the knowledge of an eye for an eye God in order to understand one that says love thy enemies and be good to those who persecute you (rather strange and mysterious concepts for the time). Some could and a doorway was opened to them, others could not, and needed to unlearn their existing knowledge of God before this becomes possible. I am oversimplifying here and focusing on one aspect of the mystery Jesus spoke about, but it is one good example and keeps with the point of the thread.

While @soul seeker may object to being made in the image of the might and smite God as portrayed in the old testament, I expect that being made in the image of the God of love, compassion, and mercy, as preached by Jesus might not be so yucky an idea. To grasp the former, one need look only at man, but the latter is a much more mysterious concept to understand, particularly for the mind of a man as it struggles through life.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by ketzer

I was with you until this part.

12Whoever has [knowledge of the mysteries] will be given more [knowledge of the mysteries], and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have [knowledge of the mysteries], even what he has [knowledge of the mysteries] will be taken away from him.

R U sure about that last knowledge of the mysteries? It seems to contradict the sentence above.
...

As I understand it, JC meant that those who don't understand much of his ideas (Whoever does not have [knowledge of the mysteries]), will get even more confused listening to his parables (even what he has [knowledge of the mysteries] will be taken away from him).

It isn't that somebody will give or take, but about understanding, or lack of (a.k.a. "confusion").

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by ketzer

... I expect that being made in the image of the God of love, compassion, and mercy, as preached by Jesus might not be so yucky an idea. ...

The way I understand what reality is, your emotions (as thoughts) materialize in situations that strengthen those emotions. This is easier observed in dreams, but in the awake life it works the same way. You are afraid of something, then that'll happen. This seems to be a law of the wider reality (non-physical) too.

So, one of JC's lines of preaching was to convince people to not succumb to emotions like anger, fear, hate, which inherently generate more of the such. He preached instead love, compassion, mercy, turn the other cheek, and such.

It is like with "affirmations", you don't affirm "I won't be angry" (as this puts the focus on anger, and that's what you create), but you affirm "I am calm" (the desired outcome, now, sending ripples in all directions).

The problem with these JC's teachings is that people weren't and aren't masters of their emotions, so they may work on all the recommended positive emotions, but they don't eliminate the negative ones.

It is counterproductive to feel compassion for a victim, and also anger toward a perpetrator. It is counterproductive to feel love for your children, and fear for what might happen to them. Somehow, we put more psychic energy into the negative emotions. They are more "organic". They take over our thoughts.

So, in my opinion, JC erred (at least narrowing only to this example) in being unrealistic about what is doable with real people, at least at their current level of development, when people are controlled by emotions.

We've seen and see many such example of good intentions that are unrealistic, and end up badly. Also, it is a shame that people aren't held accountable, nor take responsibility for promoting unrealistic ideas and ideals that have disastrous results. Plenty of examples in history and in the news.

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

Made in God’s image. Yuk. Not me thanks.

Yahweh, it is written, created us in his image.

He is described as a vile genocidal and infanticidal god, a demiurge to us Gnostics Christians, and is responsible for a religion that has become homophobic and misogynous and who grew Christianity by inquisitions and murder.

This is not surprising given that so many of Christianity’s moral tenets are immoral. Christianity lacks moral tenets with which to convert. It takes pressure and force to believe the weird Christian take on the otherwise decent Jewish beginnings of their religion and god. Christians should have usurped some decent god as without Midrash, Yahweh is more like an evil Satan than a good god.

If you think you are created in Yahweh’s image, and able to do his evil and good deeds, are you happy about it?

If you do not think you are up to Yahweh’s evil ways, are you happy about it?

Regards
DL

It teaches--In OUR image= Yhvh( Jehovah) and his master worker of Proverbs 8)= Jesus( speaking at Prov 8) before he came to earth. It is not God speaking)
That image = the ability to love and reason and be just. God applies justice in all his dealings. Men do not like that justice.

Originally Posted by kjw47

It teaches--In OUR image= Yhvh( Jehovah) and his master worker of Proverbs 8)= Jesus( speaking at Prov 8) before he came to earth. It is not God speaking)
That image = the ability to love and reason and be just. God applies justice in all his dealings. Men do not like that justice.

You mean that moral people will reject your Yahweh as good, given his genocidal and infanticidal ways.

Strange how most are against genocidal characters and here you are calling one just.

You just want to ride your scapegoat imaginary savior into heaven.

You know that we were all unjustly condemned in the first place but are too much of a moral coward to question your genocidal moral monster of a god.

You might try to mature your thinking.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by inavalan

The way I understand what reality is, your emotions (as thoughts) materialize in situations that strengthen those emotions. This is easier observed in dreams, but in the awake life it works the same way. You are afraid of something, then that'll happen. This seems to be a law of the wider reality (non-physical) too.

So, one of JC's lines of preaching was to convince people to not succumb to emotions like anger, fear, hate, which inherently generate more of the such. He preached instead love, compassion, mercy, turn the other cheek, and such.

It is like with "affirmations", you don't affirm "I won't be angry" (as this puts the focus on anger, and that's what you create), but you affirm "I am calm" (the desired outcome, now, sending ripples in all directions).

The problem with these JC's teachings is that people weren't and aren't masters of their emotions, so they may work on all the recommended positive emotions, but they don't eliminate the negative ones.

It is counterproductive to feel compassion for a victim, and also anger toward a perpetrator. It is counterproductive to feel love for your children, and fear for what might happen to them. Somehow, we put more psychic energy into the negative emotions. They are more "organic". They take over our thoughts.

So, in my opinion, JC erred (at least narrowing only to this example) in being unrealistic about what is doable with real people, at least at their current level of development, when people are controlled by emotions.

We've seen and see many such example of good intentions that are unrealistic, and end up badly. Also, it is a shame that people aren't held accountable, nor take responsibility for promoting unrealistic ideas and ideals that have disastrous results. Plenty of examples in history and in the news.

Lots to digest there. I think we are programmed by evolution to put more energy into negative thoughts and emotions. At one time in our history, those are the ones that had the potential to kill us. They say we think something like 5 negative thoughts for every 1 positive (something like that).

Anyway, I do think that negative thoughts and emotions, particularly our fears and hatreds, will tend to manifest themselves for us to face. In that way we can gain experience and understanding. So yes, in that way, we create our reality outward based on what we hold inward. I also expect that courage and love work the same way.

I don't think I would phrase it as JC erred in his approach. I would think about the parables of the different seeds. There is the idea of sowing the seed, but not necessarily being responsible to what happens after that. One farmer sows good seeds but then weeds get planted among them. Kind of what happened, IMO, with the central message of Jesus, good seed sowed, but many later added their own weeds along side it and canonized it all. Or the idea of the seeds that blow to the wind and sometimes they fall in places where they don't take root and grow, and sometimes they land on fertile ground.

I have never really seen Jesus's message as a complete set of instructions, but more as a bit of help in finding ones way. Kind of like one of those zen fingers pointing to the moon. We still have to find the moon on our own, that is why we are here. To learn how to create through courage and love rather than fear and hate.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Lots to digest there. I think we are programmed by evolution to put more energy into negative thoughts and emotions. At one time in our history, those are the ones that had the potential to kill us. They say we think something like 5 negative thoughts for every 1 positive (something like that).

Anyway, I do think that negative thoughts and emotions, particularly our fears and hatreds, will tend to manifest themselves for us to face. In that way we can gain experience and understanding. So yes, in that way, we create our reality outward based on what we hold inward. I also expect that courage and love work the same way.

I don't think I would phrase it as JC erred in his approach. I would think about the parables of the different seeds. There is the idea of sowing the seed, but not necessarily being responsible to what happens after that. One farmer sows good seeds but then weeds get planted among them. Kind of what happened, IMO, with the central message of Jesus, good seed sowed, but many later added their own weeds along side it and canonized it all. Or the idea of the seeds that blow to the wind and sometimes they fall in places where they don't take root and grow, and sometimes they land on fertile ground.

I have never really seen Jesus's message as a complete set of instructions, but more as a bit of help in finding ones way. Kind of like one of those zen fingers pointing to the moon. We still have to find the moon on our own, that is why we are here. To learn how to create through courage and love rather than fear and hate.

I disagree, but that's okay.

You seem to advocate against responsibility and against the protection of those more ignorant, believing that pain and suffering are good for you. Thanks, not for me. It is like you go to school and have to start getting bad grades before you start learning. Not my approach to learning.

You're very combative tonight ...