The Relative Universe.

[Gem]

It is said that all is energy, but one can't say what energy is, only observe some form of energy like heat or electricity or light or something, but all these are based on movement of some sort...

All kinetics need move from here to there, so I surmise pure formless energy is a dual polarity, but without a 'between scale' there's nothing to have a begining and an end. No between. No here. No there.

Basically, one can't say a dual polarity has locations...

We are speaking of existance itself (because everything is energy), and the essence of this existance ... as a dual relationship.

This duality springs up for no apparent reason where there could just as easily be nothing at all... I mean it could be said that things 'just are' but that implies there is a tangible reality, but perhaps things never quite 'are' just as things never quite 'aren't', which means the 'between bit' is only the degree that never quite defines what really is and what really isn't.

the between bit is consciousness? I dont even know quite where im going with this but it just feels right. maybe you could go into further detail? this is very interesting

[Gem]

Thank you...

It is the word 'consciousness'... but could it be said that a stone is conscious? I guess only a stoner would know. Hehehehe.

There is a problem in saying everything is the same consciousness expressed in different forms too, because there is no singular form, only the inter-relation of the relative universe. It is also apparent there is observation of the universe. Observation occurs, though there is no quantifiable observer, and that's the biggie isn't it, who and what is the observer named 'I'?

Motion just happens and it is observed, so it is possible that motion is not more than observation and these are the same thing, but observation and motion still form a relationship. The presence of observation verifies motion, and all existence can only be verified by our observation of it.

yes i think i see. you cant have one without the other. the observer has vectors that create reality and the vectors seem to be the act of being conscious. were creating reality every time we look at or think about something. i just think that everything is spirit energy and we are using our spirit energy to create everything else. I don’t believe that we are only one entity broke into pieces that will return to one, i think we are many and we are just using this form in this dimension to create in this particular way. adopting the whole one thing temporarily. we will go back to another dimension that may have nothing to do with emotions and senses when this is all over having a different type of identity but having an individual identity either way. I dont know, though this is something i love to think about. I had received visions before that started this speculation, but now im in a sort of muse block lately. I feel this to be true but its hard to say why at the moment.

[Gem]

I think what we tend to do is say 'all is something' to indicate it is all of the same essence, but better to think of this essence as an immaterial presence than a substance of some sort.

The nature of it isn't describable as it has no quality property or quantity, having no external quantifier.

We can't say it is and we can't say it isnt, but perhaps it is as much as it isn't, so as it becomes less it also becomes more and if it did vanish into nothing it would have an absolute existance, so under any circumstance at all it is a presence.

I also can't quantify myself, merely acknowledge my presence, for where did I begin and where do I end? This is senceless as dual relatives don't have a portion between. I can relate to myself though... The presence recognises its presence.

perhaps were not on the right realm of existence to discover our origin. different laws govern this one where be may be one. but then on another plane we are not one. i dont think there is any one way to anything. theres always room for play in the fabric

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Gem

It is the word 'consciousness'... but could it be said that a stone is conscious? I guess only a stoner would know. Hehehehe.

There is a problem in saying everything is the same consciousness expressed in different forms too, because there is no singular form, only the inter-relation of the relative universe. It is also apparent there is observation of the universe. Observation occurs, though there is no quantifiable observer, and that's the biggie isn't it, who and what is the observer named 'I'?

Motion just happens and it is observed, so it is possible that motion is not more than observation and these are the same thing, but observation and motion still form a relationship. The presence of observation verifies motion, and all existence can only be verified by our observation of it.

Actually, Gem... YOU are the observer.

It's possible to get very tangled up in these kinds of ideas, whereas it's quite easy to see what observation and consciousness are... beyond concepts.

Simply notice that you are aware.

Consciousness is how you know you exist... and what you experience.

And... at some point in your spiritual evolution you will spontaneously notice that Everything Is Conscious... including stones and stars.

Not only that, but we exist in an infinite sea of consciousness and interacting energies.


blessings,
Xan

[Gem]

Yes and many times I hear the smame sort of thing in different words, but is it I that am the observer? There is no quantity of me and although this body has sensations that are felt where is this entity called me? Where are you for that matter? We are but this interaction that defines both us in these thoughts we think of ourselves and eachother.

I'm just the sum of all this thinking feeling which is but interaction with the things that happen and all things are just like that, and now we are talking it's just talking observed... and there is no me and you apart from these thoughts.

Gem- I think of the ego or soul being the separate part and the spirit being the formless eternal part. the soul creates a world to be separate in to compare realities with other souls. the spirit does not exist in time/space. this may very well be way my the understanding will tie me to this world. maybe you are destined to obtain a higher understanding where you must dissolve the ego completely, maybe you want to leave the great blue curtain. I would love to fully understand your implications, you may have to really break it down for me but i feel that i have something to learn from you.

''Unity can only be manifested by the Binary. Unity itself and the idea of Unity are already two.'' -Buddha

[Gem]

Originally Posted by mahakali

Gem- I think of the ego or soul being the separate part and the spirit being the formless eternal part. the soul creates a world to be separate in to compare realities with other souls. the spirit does not exist in time/space. this may very well be way my the understanding will tie me to this world. maybe you are destined to obtain a higher understanding where you must dissolve the ego completely, maybe you want to leave the great blue curtain. I would love to fully understand your implications, you may have to really break it down for me but i feel that i have something to learn from you.

''Unity can only be manifested by the Binary. Unity itself and the idea of Unity are already two.'' -Buddha

Well ... I agree with the Buddah, and there is no unity and there is no duality, these are just points of view... opinions.

I only come to SF to say what I think and I know there are many here that proclaim themselves teachers and pointers, but they too only say what they think, only express a point of view.

Xan might like to be a spiritual teacher but is not such a thing, and it is folly to adhere to such a belief where one person can tell another what he is, and what gall to presume to instruct me as to my own nature. Wouldn't I be just as foolish as he to believe such a thing?

I have nothing to teach and nothing to point out, and these thoughts are shared in the greater consciousness like they appear and are noticed. Perhaps there is just the honesty of expression, and there is no answers to be taught or learned, for each man can just see things for himself in the unique way he sees them, and not be instructed to see things in a way prescribed someone who fancies themselves a teacher.