So, God wants us to be perfect, right?

[Lightseer]

Originally Posted by Michelle11

My personal opinion is that the message is being misinterpreted because it is being presented by humans. We aren't striving to be perfect but we are striving to live from our soul's higher perspective.

But that is the same thing. If you are striving for the 'soul's higher perspective' then you are saying you are lower now and need to better yourself to reach God or whatever you consider to be 'enlightenment' etc. My OP is making the point, why would it be necessary to be higher in any way? It is an assumption that is a premise for all belief systems but no one questions it! They just go along with it. There is no evidence for it at all, and I don't mean scientific, I mean from the experience of billions, especially those who have 'advanced' in occult and religious paths.

Originally Posted by Michelle11

The main goal being to overcome the fear of our mortality, trust in the process of life and that we are more than meets the human eye and ultimately live from our soul perspective of unconditional love.

Depends what you define as love.

Originally Posted by Michelle11

The tricky part is to understand that none of us is to blame for anything we do as humans because we are clouded in our thinking, driven by primal survival instincts and confused about what is truth.

We are responsible so how can we not be to 'blame'?

There is no objective truth about anything really.

Originally Posted by Michelle11

We aren't meant to be perfect. We are meant to learn to love ourselves despite not being perfect and have compassion for our faults and mistakes because they are merely a part of the learning process. It's a game that gives the impression that the stakes are high when indeed we have nothing to lose and we were never broken in the first place, we merely got convinced that we were by other humans who are confused themselves.

So if we aren't meant to be perfect what is the point of any spiritual belief system? As they are all currently based on the premise that we have to become perfect. Oh and give yourself some fancy title like Buddha, Priest (or even better High Priest!) or whatever.

[Lightseer]

Originally Posted by AraceliCianna

You are right, all religions are about striving for perfection, but I think part of that is the human nature to want to be better and self-improve.

The human race would suggest otherwise. Most people are not trying to improve or be better, they mostly compete to prove who is best already. Look at the way the world is set up to award people for so called achievement, including awards for all sorts of things, starting at school, swimming awards, sports, arts. All set up to give people a mindset of failure unless you COMPETE. Like rats in an experiment.

Humans have been domesticated like farm animals. They have no idea what their nature is.

Originally Posted by AraceliCianna

Without that drive we would not have evolved into the clever homo-sapiens we are today.

There you go, the programming that says we have to have to compete to achieve anything.

Originally Posted by AraceliCianna

So I think religion keeps that idea of the perfect human in mind which we can all continue progressing towards as a species, heaven on earth kind of thing. As I see it religion in this way is a reflection of what we want to achieve on earth, happiness, peace, love, etc.

Which is exactly the formula for 1.Humans are basically rubbish. 2.You need to do a set of things to become perfect (set by religion and new agers etc.) and then 3. You get to go to heaven (insert your end game here) and be happy - at long last!

Why can't we have happiness, peace, love etc. as we are?

[Lightseer]

Originally Posted by linen53

I'm not perfect and I do not try to be (been there done that and I've got a whole closet full of t shirts to prove it).

How can I learn the lessons I came to learn if I'm perfect?

By embracing my imperfections I become perfect.

Heaven doesn't want us when we have learned to be perfect; heaven wants us when just the way we are.

There are no serial killers in heaven because everyone is already dead.

No thieves so because everything is free and in a abundance.

No rapists because there are no secrets. No one can sneak up on you.

So what's a imperfect guy or gal gonna do in heaven? He'll have to reincarnate on this imperfect world if he wants to do bad stuff.

So, we're back to the idea that Bad = imperfect and good = perfect.

Originally Posted by Lightseer

All religions and belief systems tell us that God wants us to be perfect. That we are basically faulty and need to strive to get fixed. This is interestingly the only area where all beliefs meet, whether it is a Catholic, New Age witch, occultist or whatever, all say 'God' wants us to make ourselves perfect, find our so called higher self or something similar. Even Satanists strive to be the perfect person, as they see it. It is basically all the same thing in different wrapping.

God made man, man made religion and religion made God. And if those religions are to be believed, if God wanted us to be perfect then he would have made us perfect. He is God after all and surely a little tweak to our genes our something would be relatively simple for his omnipotence.

Originally Posted by Lightseer

It goes like this...

1.You are inferior to higher beings, higher self or god or God.
2. You have to become the acceptable version of perfect (for your particular belief system) to *ascend* (aka be accepted by the beings *higher* than you.

Being inferior is either hard-wired into our heads or programmed by a religion that's controlling, telling us we're inferior and that their way is the only way keeps people walking through the doors. Those same religions will tell you that God/Angels/Higher Self/Overself Loves you unconditionally anyway because that's what God/Angels/Higher Self/Overself does, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Lightseer

But what if that is wrong?

What if we should be striving to be imperfect? (I don't mean the 'soft' approach to spirituality).

Or better yet, why can't we just forget all this ideology baloney and get on with our Lives, perhaps even work out why God made us the way he did? Surely in his almighty omnipotence he must have had a reason for not making us perfect? Striving to be imperfect, aren't we already imperfect so why should we strive what what we already are? I guess realising that our imperfections make us perfect candidates for perfection is probably a concept too far.

Come to think of it, why should we strive to be Spiritual when we already are? I guess man made Spirituality too.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

God made man, man made religion and religion made God. And if those religions are to be believed, if God wanted us to be perfect then he would have made us perfect. He is God after all and surely a little tweak to our genes our something would be relatively simple for his omnipotence.

Being inferior is either hard-wired into our heads or programmed by a religion that's controlling, telling us we're inferior and that their way is the only way keeps people walking through the doors. Those same religions will tell you that God/Angels/Higher Self/Overself Loves you unconditionally anyway because that's what God/Angels/Higher Self/Overself does, isn't it?

Or better yet, why can't we just forget all this ideology baloney and get on with our Lives, perhaps even work out why God made us the way he did? Surely in his almighty omnipotence he must have had a reason for not making us perfect? Striving to be imperfect, aren't we already imperfect so why should we strive what what we already are? I guess realising that our imperfections make us perfect candidates for perfection is probably a concept too far.

Come to think of it, why should we strive to be Spiritual when we already are? I guess man made Spirituality too.

I enjoyed reading this, it really made my day. Thanks.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

God made man, man made religion and religion made God. And if those religions are to be believed, if God wanted us to be perfect then he would have made us perfect. He is God after all and surely a little tweak to our genes our something would be relatively simple for his omnipotence.

Being inferior is either hard-wired into our heads or programmed by a religion that's controlling, telling us we're inferior and that their way is the only way keeps people walking through the doors. Those same religions will tell you that God/Angels/Higher Self/Overself Loves you unconditionally anyway because that's what God/Angels/Higher Self/Overself does, isn't it?

Or better yet, why can't we just forget all this ideology baloney and get on with our Lives, perhaps even work out why God made us the way he did? Surely in his almighty omnipotence he must have had a reason for not making us perfect? Striving to be imperfect, aren't we already imperfect so why should we strive what what we already are? I guess realising that our imperfections make us perfect candidates for perfection is probably a concept too far.

Come to think of it, why should we strive to be Spiritual when we already are? I guess man made Spirituality too.

Some people don't even think about any of this stuff. Even the word spirituality and god comes from humans.

People focus on what they choose for their own experience. They dive on things to make sense of what they experience.

Like myself recently. Let me see how to interpret it without making it be something related to something else.

Ok.

I closed my eyes and suddenly the area around my forehead began to open up a view of pictures. Some were angled and some looked like buildings with doorways and windows. From there I moved onto seeing mountains, oceans, land mass. I would describe it much like looking into Kaliedscope of sorts. Then I saw what I would describe as being, a space crater and coming from its central core was various creatures and various things morphing and changing form. As an example I saw an iguana it had shape and form but no details on its body. As it came through that very large crater it would take shape then suddenly merge into a blob and move through the flow of my viewing. Other things did the same thing. As I watched, I kept thinking, this is amazing and it felt so life like through this visionary connection. I was pleasantly surprised, that I could see and observe this so real and so very life like. It went on for about five minutes.

[linen53]

Originally Posted by Lightseer

So, we're back to the idea that Bad = imperfect and good = perfect.

Absolutely not. Who said imperfect equaled bad? I can be imperfect without passing judgement.

Doing bad things to another human being is harming them. Invasion within their boundaries against their will. An entirely different scenario to being imperfect.

Originally Posted by Lightseer

All religions and belief systems tell us that God wants us to be perfect. That we are basically faulty and need to strive to get fixed. This is interestingly the only area where all beliefs meet, whether it is a Catholic, New Age witch, occultist or whatever, all say 'God' wants us to make ourselves perfect, find our so called higher self or something similar. Even Satanists strive to be the perfect person, as they see it. It is basically all the same thing in different wrapping.

I.

Lightseer,

Sorry, but I cannot agree with your premise. There is no expectation of perfection with Christianity. The basic premise of Christianity is that all are flawed and striving for perfection brings no ultimate reward. In Christianity grace is the means of salvation not works or fruitless striving for perfection. Admittedly it is different for other religions......e.g. the eightfold path leads to nirvana for Buddhists, karma is the by-word for Hindus, covenants for Judaism, the code of law for Muslims.......all of those represent that various strivings....works.........lead to and result in salvation.

In regards to Christianity, the words of the Apostle Paul in 1Cor.12:7-10 are informative.......vs. 9...."But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness' ".............vs.10......."For when I am weak, then I am strong".

Not to mention, there is ample scripture regarding the futility of the law. It is the emphasis on grace that distinguishes Christianity from other religions. It is unconditional love. One can find references to grace in other religions but they indicate that grace is bestowed as a result of a faithful pursuit of perfection.

Originally Posted by Busby

I enjoyed reading this, it really made my day. Thanks.

You're very welcome. It's pretty liberating when you come to this.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Lightseer

Interesting username for someone who says we have to become a better version to reach God, by 'Like' God I assume you mean you are part way there.

I didn't say anything about having to become a better anything to reach God .

I said it's a dangerous game to play the I AM perfect as I AM card .

The perfect as I AM card that is played through ignorance .

Some peeps bury their head in the sand and never look at themselves due to the fantasised philosophies around today ..

Some read that there is no self here or no self to find, so never do anything on the back of it ..

What good will that do the peep that is getting eaten away inside because of past actions?

What good will it do the selfish peep to say they are perfect as they are?



x daz x