Agreement

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by God-Like

This intent / urge to move the mind must be acknowledged by an individual .

Some say there is no-one doing, there is only doing happening ..

It's quite convenient to leave out the middle man ..

Butt the middle man has to pick up the phone, it doesn't answer itself ..

Even an answering machine message is left by a peep


x daz x

Just for your awareness, what Gem says is not the Buddhist teaching or philosophy

The Buddha taught it in this way:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...&postcount=101

[Gem]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Just for your awareness, what Gem says is not the Buddhist teaching or philosophy

The Buddha taught it in this way:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...&postcount=101

The main issue for me is restraining myself from elaborate explanations and trying to keep it all 'twitter sized'. I would like to be elaborate and intricate on the subject, but no one is particularly interested.

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Thanks J. As usual, some sound and thoughtful points.

Firstly, let us be clear about something here. By NA do you mean (as many seem to) that handful of teachings/teachers from the Tony Parsons camp? That is, TP and his followers - which probably amounts to less than ten teachers (a teacher being someone who holds regular (actual) meetings and has had at least one book published - not self-styled YouTubers.) If so, my response is, really?! What’s all the fuss about? It’s hardly going to destabilise the establishment.

So surely that can’t be it. You must be including satsang teachers. If so, your argument holds far less weight. For a start, any critique of satsang as a means to liberation has to include Ramana Maharshi (also, Nisargadatta, Alan Watts, Balsekar, J. Krishnamurti etc. etc.) I have to insist that any argument against satsang that doesn’t include Ramana is without credibility (it’s obvious to me, having closely followed this debate for the last fifteen years or so [and I’ve had several conversations with Dennis Waite - the instigator of the NA meme] that the inclusion of Ramana into the TA fold is purely expedient due to his mass popularity.)

So why is your argument holding less weight in this case? Because the majority of satsang teachers (including the ones mentioned above) are advocates of practice of some kind. Not practice to become what you are, but practice in order to realise and assimilate your true nature. These teachers advocate meditation, self-inquiry, solitude etc. toward this end. And these teachers are very clear that ripeness (of the types I mentioned earlier) is essential.

Finally, do you honestly think that these ‘mentally polarized’ souls who are so content with a shallow intellectual gloss of a teaching would benefit from a traditional formal regime? Do you not think that they would simply coast along in a traditional setting dreaming up new narratives of spiritual depth and accomplishment? I’ve met some of these people. They’re now great at peppering their conversations with Sanskrit and they can quote sections of the Upanishads - but have they cut through the root of delusion? Realisation is rare, you know that. There are no formulas or guarantees of how this comes about - if there were this would be big news. Of course some teachings/approaches are worse than others - by all means, weed them out. I say, on a case by case basis.

Hi Moondance,

Agreed, 100%.
Incidentally, I never heard of Dennis Waite until these posts - but have heard the NA rhetoric in countless discussions on other sites for years as a recognized phenomenon/trend, but not really paying much attention or knowing the probable sources, except for where infrequently referenced to the ‘usual suspects’, including Parsons (maybe once a few years ago until again here) or the self-styled (derivative) YouTubers you mention. Like so many ‘evangelicals’ ringing my doorbell!

It is obviously growing in popularity and that is not necessarily a ‘bad’ thing, since it does indicate some movement out of conventional materialism. People have to start somewhere as conscious seekers and progress from whatever their current standard is by an ever-available and emerging aspiration. That’s the ‘game’, and that the ‘proof is in the pudding’ is fairly unavoidable. Which leads to…

There are no formulas or guarantees of how this comes about - if there were this would be big news.

Yes, and many NA proponents assume their so-called ‘radical’ departure is that very ‘Good News’, to borrow an old and similarly re-constituted meme from the Christian ‘tradition’. Again, good for them. One only need be responsible for their own sadhana, as compassionately provided for within the ‘illusion’ of differentiation. But that may also include service, satsang, and encouragement amongst fellow seekers. In that regard...

Of course some teachings/approaches are worse than others - by all means, weed them out. I say, on a case by case basis.

I think that some of this is exactly what is transpiring and being revealed through these discussions - on a post-by-post basis within a more decentralized ‘satsang’ in a globalizing electronically connected world … the utility of which may benefit participants whether actively or passively participating, who may have interest, questions, and internal necessity for discriminating what is, and is not useful for their own emerging path, for sticking a fork in that pudding so to speak, and why these discussions have value.

So there really is no ‘fuss’ - or there is, but that apparent destabilization is impetus for further practice, work, etc.. Therefore, I am no more concerned about any NA ‘invasion’, than for 100’s of millions of ‘Born Agains’ (from whatever tradition). Those ships have sailed and will always be leaving the harbor. "Bon Voyage!"

~ J

Originally Posted by Gem

The main issue for me is restraining myself from elaborate explanations and trying to keep it all 'twitter sized'. I would like to be elaborate and intricate on the subject, but no one is particularly interested.

Gem,

This is refreshing. I share your sentiments. What we might regard as salient points in our postings have a way of being lost and/or passed unnoticed if they appear in lengthy and verbose postings. In a small personal attempt to keep grounded I have a current framed picture of myself that I walk by every day. In the corner of that frame I have also placed a wallet sized first grade picture of myself showing my innocence and openness. Sometimes when I see that I ask myself...."What happened?". My hope is that I have not allowed myself to become a pompous know-it-all....:) Your screen name of 'Gem' is well chosen and appropriate with your conscious decision to be judicious in your postings.....:)

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Gem,

This is refreshing. I share your sentiments. What we might regard as salient points in our postings have a way of being lost and/or passed unnoticed if they appear in lengthy and verbose postings. In a small personal attempt to keep grounded I have a current framed picture of myself that I walk by every day. In the corner of that frame I have also placed a wallet sized first grade picture of myself showing my innocence and openness. Sometimes when I see that I ask myself...."What happened?". My hope is that I have not allowed myself to become a pompous know-it-all....:) Your screen name of 'Gem' is well chosen and appropriate with your conscious decision to be judicious in your postings.....:)

My user name Gem is taken from the Buddhist 'Triple Gem', and my mother used to call me Gem when I was a child - so in its own way, it does bear some essential similarities to your use of photos.

As far as the knowledge game is concerned, In my case, I only know some few things, maybe a bit of Buddhist philosophy for example, but it's just a lay interest which not necessarily interesting to anyone else, so I resist being a bore if I can, which is really hard teehee.

[Mr Interesting]

I've just read a very quick overview of Neo Advaita, twas easier than reading all these pages (I'm lazy!) and I must admit I've seen the repercussions in quite a few people who've read, for instance, Eckhart Tolle, and taken on board an understanding, they think is valid, yet the shallowness of it is wonderous in the sense of how strong it makes their denial of real physical proofs they are not as enlightened as they think they are.

This is a pity as I do belief Mr Tolle is in fact enlightened except he got there, and admits, by way of madness and this, obviously, comes without the requisite ability to properly define how one might become enlightened by 'conventional means; ie hard work. Yes by being in close proximity to Mr Tolle and being of a vibrational nearness, as it were, could be beneficial and even if quite lower I'm sure some of his higher frequency might rub off... for a while.

But the layers of illusion are many, and very thin, and need careful unfurling... otherwise they spring back more resilient, so a deft hand is needed and such a touch doesn't come easily or by will alone. And we can know when our hard word is being watched and encouraged. The universe is full of enlightenment, and almost enlightened souls to aid the transformation up through what is also layered somewhat... So, I would say, of this Neo Advaita set of strategies, that they cannot do much damage, and alike evangelism in the Christian sense, are a holding pattern of sorts until such time as the befuddlements between soul and the intellect are cleared enough for the real work to begin.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Mr Interesting

I've just read a very quick overview of Neo Advaita, twas easier than reading all these pages (I'm lazy!) and I must admit I've seen the repercussions in quite a few people who've read, for instance, Eckhart Tolle, and taken on board an understanding, they think is valid, yet the shallowness of it is wonderous in the sense of how strong it makes their denial of real physical proofs they are not as enlightened as they think they are.

This is a pity as I do belief Mr Tolle is in fact enlightened except he got there, and admits, by way of madness and this, obviously, comes without the requisite ability to properly define how one might become enlightened by 'conventional means; ie hard work. Yes by being in close proximity to Mr Tolle and being of a vibrational nearness, as it were, could be beneficial and even if quite lower I'm sure some of his higher frequency might rub off... for a while.

But the layers of illusion are many, and very thin, and need careful unfurling... otherwise they spring back more resilient, so a deft hand is needed and such a touch doesn't come easily or by will alone. And we can know when our hard word is being watched and encouraged. The universe is full of enlightenment, and almost enlightened souls to aid the transformation up through what is also layered somewhat... So, I would say, of this Neo Advaita set of strategies, that they cannot do much damage, and alike evangelism in the Christian sense, are a holding pattern of sorts until such time as the befuddlements between soul and the intellect are cleared enough for the real work to begin.

Mr Interesting -

You and your beautiful, extraordinary, wondrous and magical wisdom and eagle sense are absolutely missed!

Re: "much damage" - agreed, except perhaps in attracting others who might otherwise have taken a more 'direct' route (?) and in reading some of the stuff on NA, it seems that some suicidal/delusional {"I don't really exist and neither do you"} people might take to it, but I guess .. that goes for anything.

BT

[Iamit]

Watch out guys! you are now suicidal as well as a criminal, mad, and delusional
should you dare to make a choice these totalitarians disagree with.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Watch out guys! you are now suicidal as well as a criminal, mad, and delusional
should you dare to make a choice these totalitarians disagree with.

Here's some references:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...1&postcount=30

https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,67640

On a very serious note...

This is an excerpt from a transcribed talk given by neo Advaita guy Wayne Liquorman, mentioning suicide in connection with his "teaching":

(excerpt from link removed due to content)

Be careful.

BT

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Gem

The main issue for me is restraining myself from elaborate explanations and trying to keep it all 'twitter sized'. I would like to be elaborate and intricate on the subject, but no one is particularly interested.

The issue was not length of posting, but was just the accuracy in representation.

BT