What is enlightenment - the way to God

[Gem]

Originally Posted by ajay00

I would appreciated if people stop commenting on Hindu enlightened masters in the Hinduism forum.

No Hindu has ever vilified Jesus for eating meat and drinking wine in the christianity forum.


As explained earlier, Nisargadatta was a cigarette maker and businessman by profession, and he smoked cigarettes which he made himself. Even now millions of people smoke cigarettes all over the world, even in the west.

Have no idea why the Hindu enlightened sage Nisargadatta is being targetted to a vilification campaign because he smoked .

When people say 'oh he does this, has addiction, etc, so he can't be enlightened', it only indicates Nis doesn't fit their judgment of what an enlightened person is like. Nis is perhaps my favorite advaita/non-dual speaker, so I give him the benefit of the doubt as an enlightened master. The enlightened one can have an addiction, smoke, or live the way they want to. Saying they must meet other's standards seems, well, ridiculous let alone judgmental.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Gem

When people say 'oh he does this, has addiction, etc, so he can't be enlightened', it only indicates Nis doesn't fit their judgment of what an enlightened person is like. Nis is perhaps my favorite advaita/non-dual speaker, so I give him the benefit of the doubt as an enlightened master. The enlightened one can have an addiction, smoke, or live the way they want to. Saying they must meet other's standards seems, well, ridiculous let alone judgmental.

I agree with this and from what I have read no one has been saying niz hasn't realized this or that .

The so called judgements had are expressed by those including me simply mirrors what attachments are and are not .

Habitual behaviour is a form of an attachment and by what you said in that an enlightened one can have an addiction is equally your own judgement based upon what an enlightened one can do or cannot do lol .

The same judgements that are made by those that place niz in a bubble of non attachment light .

If peeps can't have an open and honest discussion about peeps behaviour no matter whom is the subject then to me it just proves how attached peeps are to their subject / idol .


x daz x

[Gem]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Like said you are blinded and you are deafened by your attachments to your idol .

So much so that you can't hold an honest / open discussion about your idols behaviour without getting defensive and making up stories about those that question what attachment means and refers too .

To be fair, it wasn't ajay who claimed this and that about Nis. It's simply a fact that Nis smoked lots of cigs. Ajay wasn't using that as a character judgment, but some others were. No one did that with a view to open honest discussion, but clearly, with a view to use Nis's smoking to exclude him from the enlightenment club --- but is it they who makes the rules about how enlightened ones 'should' behave and thereby have the authority to declare who is and isn't enlightened?

This is a common issue with peeps that hold a specific individual in a specific light .

Pseudo-psychological nonsense parading as spiritual discussion, isn't it?


x daz x[/quote]

[Gem]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I agree with this and from what I have read no one has been saying niz hasn't realized this or that .

Yes, it was said quite emphatically.

The so called judgements had are expressed by those including me simply mirrors what attachments are and are not.


Habitual behaviour is a form of an attachment and by what you said in that an enlightened one can have an addiction is equally your own judgement based upon what an enlightened one can do or cannot do lol .

I don't have any notions about what an enlightened one should be or do. They can live however they want to.

The same judgements that are made by those that place niz in a bubble of non attachment light .

If peeps can't have an open and honest discussion about peeps behaviour no matter whom is the subject then to me it just proves how attached peeps are to their subject / idol .


x daz x

Nis smoked. It's a simple fact. The rest is just made up. That's honest.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Gem

To be fair, it wasn't ajay who claimed this and that about Nis. It's simply a fact that Nis smoked lots of cigs. Ajay wasn't using that as a character judgment, but some others were. No one did that with a view to open honest discussion, but clearly, with a view to use Nis's smoking to exclude him from the enlightenment club --- but is it they who makes the rules about how enlightened ones 'should' behave and thereby have the authority to declare who is and isn't enlightened?

If you read what was said there was the emphasis on that this was not to highlight niz's status .

It is a matter of fact that there was the references made to attachments .

Peeps shouldn't shoot the messengers in regards to pointing out and mentioning others behaviour/s patterns of habit .

It doesn't matter what ajay originally said about niz, he has an opinion and a judgement based upon him like we all do .

To get defensive and show peeps the door based upon pointing out a certain behaviour in another is just illustrating how attached one is .

I couldn't care less is niz was an addict or not or enlightened or not, I don't worship him all I am interested in is how peeps behave ..

If they say they are not attached while expressing the opposite, I will point it out ..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't have any notions about what an enlightened one should be or do. They can live however they want to.

I have the same opinion, they can drink, smoke and do cartwheels

Originally Posted by Gem

Nis smoked. It's a simple fact. The rest is just made up. That's honest.

What's honest is saying why one does and understanding why one does .


x daz x

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

Pseudo-psychological nonsense parading as spiritual discussion, isn't it?

Pretty much...and it not only happens here, in this thread and forum, but in a lot of sections of SF and I realise that I can't have a 'spiritual discussion' on a 'spiritual forum' so it is time for another lengthy hiatus, methinks.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Pretty much...and it not only happens here, in this thread and forum, but in a lot of sections of SF and I realise that I can't have a 'spiritual discussion' on a 'spiritual forum' so it is time for another lengthy hiatus, methinks.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Peeps can't have an open and honest discussion if their not open and honest .

I find I can have plenty of good chats on the forum when there are these qualities in place .

Do you see Mr Muffin slamming the door in peeps faces holding on to some grand notion of how non attached his idol is?

All peeps need to do is stick to the facts of what has been said and not get defensive, not blow things out of all proportion .

If you can't have an open and honest chat about attachments on a spiritual forum without being accused of all sorts then peeps need to look at why that is so .


x daz x

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Like said you are blinded and you are deafened by your attachments to your idol .

And like I said, we worship idols.

There is no blind attachment to masters to prevent an objective assessment.

Originally Posted by God-Like

So much so that you can't hold an honest / open discussion about your idols behaviour without getting defensive and making up stories about those that question what attachment means and refers too .

This is a common issue with peeps that hold a specific individual in a specific light .


x daz x

Is the Christianity forum or Islam forum ready to have open discussion about Christ and Muhammad and their so-called faults.

I have never went to these forums to discuss their faults.

I don't know why there should be an exception for the Hinduism forum.

Anyway I have reported you for breaking forum rules.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Gem

When people say 'oh he does this, has addiction, etc, so he can't be enlightened', it only indicates Nis doesn't fit their judgment of what an enlightened person is like. Nis is perhaps my favorite advaita/non-dual speaker, so I give him the benefit of the doubt as an enlightened master. The enlightened one can have an addiction, smoke, or live the way they want to. Saying they must meet other's standards seems, well, ridiculous let alone judgmental.

Addiction or mechanical habit indicates vasanas or egocentric impressions which indicates unconsciousness or unenlightenment.

Its as simple as that. There is no standard involved in this and this is quite easy to understand.

The people giving judgements over here have superficial understanding of vedanta or yogic psychology, and are not Hindus to give such opinions in the hinduism forum, which obviously hurt Hindu sensibilities.

If non-muslims start criticizing Muhammad in the Islam forum it will obviously create a backlash.