Why does GOD exist?

[Moonglow]

Hello,

The question; Why does God exist? to be answered seems to imply that one has some sort of definition of "God". Whether it be through an idea, philosophy, or what one may hold as a direct experience.

All these experiences, thoughts, feelings seem to form a relationship with what may be termed as "God". In this way a existence of some kind forms, IMO and reasons form as to why. In other words depends on what kind of relationship, if any, one has with "God" and how one defines it/he/she/?.

Then for me there is the unknowing exactly what this "God" is anyways. If creation or the moving force/energy with in nature and life, the reasons are within living and what unfolds.

If one feels he/she simply does not know or is not settled with how "God" is defined or even defining such, then does the question really matter?

For myself "God" exist because through the years there has been created an existence and for some awareness of such being. Called by many names and defined in many ways and through these an existence has been formed in human psyche/consciousness, IMO. It is to me simply presence felt.

Saying something does not exist creates the existence of that something in some way. Saying something exist, does not necessarily confirm the existence without evidence. But, how can one prove what may be known in one heart to another who does not hold the same in theirs?

Seems an interesting question, but the answer may not be so much about "God" as to what one finds with in oneself.

Originally Posted by iamthat

And the irony is that you are so transfixed on your definitions of God and being so self-assured that it doesn't exist that you are missing God completely.

That suits ,e fine, it means I can get on with my Life and not have to worry if he/she/it exists or not.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Why do you persist in considering God in terms of religions? The Supreme Being is nothing to do with the beliefs and practices of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc etc. You equate the God of the first three religions with Big Daddy in the Sky and so of course you reject the existence of God, because such a concept is ridiculous.

Yes it is ridiculous but it hasn't stopped people using it for their own ends and that's still happening today. And if God is 'up there, out there' and separate from everybody else then a few of the tenets of Spirituality are out of the window of contradiction.

Originally Posted by iamthat

It might be easier if the original question was rephrased. Ask why God exists and people immediately start thinking in terms of religion. Ask why Nirguna Brahman exists, and people may start thinking in terms of spiritual philosophy.

Peace.

Exactly. The question in the OP wasn't really seeking wisdom at all, IMHO - asking Why? doesn't. God is also equated with the Abrahamic religions and they have their own history that nobody wants to know about, yet affects their evolution. When that happens it stop being about God and starts being about agenda. God is God to only a handful of religions, for the rest there's a pantheon of gods of some description so God doesn't exist in their cultures. When you look at your history and take religion into a wider context everything changes, but people would rather hold onto their "God exists and that's a fact" than spend time coming to a better understanding. God comes from mythology that the Christians of the time co-opted as their own.


What's been missed is that people's relationships with God and their definitions of what he is or isn't is all an expression of their consciousness, and nothing at all about God. That's the irony that people choose not to discuss.

Originally Posted by lemex

I think we're being too restrictive in the use of the word God. God is an inclusive word irregardless of the top 3.

Then we need to go back to the definitions of what God is or isn't, but in doing that we're no longer talking about God. Any discussion about God will always bring us back to ourselves, even after the projections about his omnipotence and all the other labels.


If we're going to talk about inclusiveness then shouldn't we include history, the various religious contexts and a touch of psychology to give us a wider understanding of God? Or is the conversation going to be restricted to agenda?

[Shivani Devi]

Yet, I am still sitting here wondering why it is that God is still being pigeonholed into a framework of belief or non belief according to an agenda.

Thing is, that God can be anything he/she/it chooses to be at any time to suit God's agenda, yet limiting God to just that, isn't discussing God at all either.

As far as I am concerned (and many Hindus along with me), God IS Brahman (both Nirguna and Saguna) and there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between religion or Dharma and spirituality.

God is the totality and fullness of existence in and of itself. Nothing can be added to it nor removed from it to make it any more or less than what it already is:

http://greenmesg.org/stotras/vedas/o...purnamidam.php

If some want to see God as a "being" for individual purpose, which some may call an "agenda" that's fine too, although the word "agenda" has so many negative connotations, that it is not a word I favour personally, however, because the absolute is so nebulous and abstract that trying to conceive of such a thing is beyond any mental capacity, a "being" or "entity" exists only as a stepping stone to that wholly inclusive experience, which is known as 'Satchitanananda' - Truth, Consciousness and Bliss.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yet, I am still sitting here wondering why it is that God is still being pigeonholed into a framework of belief or non belief according to an agenda.

Underpinning the framework of belief or non-belief is something that Spiritual people generally want to ignore the existence of - the frameworks of what's inside their own heads.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thing is, that God can be anything he/she/it chooses to be at any time to suit God's agenda, yet limiting God to just that, isn't discussing God at all either.

Again that's under the assumption God exists, and God's existence remains a belief until such time as it becomes a fact. God being anything he/she/it chooses comes from the framework of belief, and you have an agenda for your belief. By the way, for me agenda isn't a swear word, it helps with realisations often. Being or not being is - according to the link you've provided - is not Divine Consciousness because it is Dual.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

As far as I am concerned (and many Hindus along with me), God IS Brahman (both Nirguna and Saguna) and there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between religion or Dharma and spirituality.

Haile Selassie and I would disagree -

"The temple of the most high begins with the human body, which houses our life, essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through Religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans which were supposed to help people grow spiritually.

Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe and each other. As the essence of our existence it embodies our culture, true identity, nationhood and destiny. A people without a nation they can really call their own is a people without a soul. Africa is our nation and is in spiritual and physical bondage because her leaders are turning to outside forces for solutions to African problems when everything Africa needs is within her. When African righteous people come together, the world will come together. This is our divine destiny. "

Western Spirituality comes to you courtesy of invaders with an agenda of divide and conquer in the form of Christianity, mostly, which is where the Supreme Being idea and the fear-based Spirituality comes from. Everybody can have a monopoly of God, nobody can have the monopoly of consciousness. The monopoly of what God is or isn't is what drives the Abrahamic religions and therefore in many ways Spirituality, since the basis of Spirituality is - in the main - religious according to Haile Selassie's definition.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

God is the totality and fullness of existence in and of itself. Nothing can be added to it nor removed from it to make it any more or less than what it already is:

http://greenmesg.org/stotras/vedas/o...purnamidam.php

If some want to see God as a "being" for individual purpose, which some may call an "agenda" that's fine too, although the word "agenda" has so many negative connotations, that it is not a word I favour personally, however, because the absolute is so nebulous and abstract that trying to conceive of such a thing is beyond any mental capacity, a "being" or "entity" exists only as a stepping stone to that wholly inclusive experience, which is known as 'Satchitanananda' - Truth, Consciousness and Bliss.

Hurrah!!

As soon as we start talking about God we stop talking about God, that's the irony because what we're really talking about is our inability to grasp something that is so far beyond our consciousness. God becomes emergent of a mental construct and the mind looksa for a reason for God's existence. That's what the mind does, in order to grasp it more fully and understand, because it doesn't like ignorance and not knowing too much. Divine Consciousness - stealing the expression - is beyond a reason for existence. Tolle said that object consciousness is anything to do with the brain - and beliefs are formed by and retained in the brain, and are therefore 'objects' or little bits of electrical energy. Space consciousness or what is called Divine Consciousness in the link and what is also known as Christ Consciousness - is far above the consciousness of objects.

From the link you provided - "From the Fullness of Divine Consciousness the World is manifested" That has quite few parallels in so many cultures, including the Christian 'God made heaven and earth' bit. Matter is emergent of consciousness, and both Spirituality and science agree with that. If a belief in what God is or isn't comes from the processing of information - Tolle's object consciousness - then the consciousness there becomes emergent of matter. It's backwards.

If you'd never heard a mention of God and what he/she/it is, would you still believe in God? Or do you believe in God because you've heard all that wonderful stuff and you'd like a slice of that pie? Don't forget the so-called God gene.

[Shivani Devi]

Like I previously stated, "God" is just a word, a concept which can mean a multitude of things to a multitude of people.

To say that God either does or does not exist, there must already be a cognitive concept of "God" to ascertain whether existence is an issue.

For example, a person may not believe in God as the Lion of Judah, but may believe in "intelligent design" and therefore, "intelligent design" would be their "God".

A person may not believe that "Sky Daddy" exists, but believes in a source of universal consciousness, so that source of universal consciousness would be their "God" and so on and so forth.

If somebody wishes to believe that a pile of dog feces is God, well that is what it will be, until the pile of rotting poo is transcended and the realisation of the formless behind that form is directly experienced.

Many people will say that Hinduism has "a lot of Gods". When a Hindu reaches Samadhi/Nirvana, they will understand that it is all just the ONE God with limitless emanations and which ever deity is chosen to realise that and to understand it, is wholly based upon individual temperament.

Some will say "you worship THIS God...why don't you worship THAT God instead?" They are STILL seeing the difference, but of course, if one starts worshiping THAT God, there will always be another who will say "why are you worshiping THAT God? You should worship THIS God instead"...it never ends....Well it does, when the realisation hits that the personification of Godhead is a matter of heart, not brain... It is what the individual feels drawn to...can relate to on some level that goes way BEYOND the mind, and into that realm where unconditional love and joy is experienced.

Of course, some may not need that and get that feeling from nature, from other life experiences and that is their "God", and the proof is whether that whole experience is transitory or permanent.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The reasons God exists -

1. Your agenda
2. You haven't worked out that you're a God yourself
3. You're a Christian not a Gnostic
4. Why is the wrong question, the right question is "What are the reasons God exist?
5. You're not listening to your own narrative and all the other narratives about God.
6. There are too many contradictions to resolve to make any real sense.
7. God (if he does exist) is beyond causation so the question of Why? or What are the reasons? is nonsense. Which is why I don't ask.
8. The frequency of the human body is 5Hz. Originally the Schumann Resonance was just over 9Hz. They've theorised (well, it has to be theory because they can't test what doesn't exist.) that God's frequency is 938Hz. That means religion was right, that God is unknowable or so far about human consciousness that the mind simply couldn't grasp it.

Talking about mediumship, there's a saying - "All Spirit is 35 years old." While tht's not 'technically' correct, what it leads to is an understanding of how what's said about God - and this is really what it's all about - is so far beyond human comprehension that what people wax so lyrically often enough about is not God at all but their own projections.

As soon as you say the word 'God' you're not talking about God any more, and the trouble is that so many people don't understand that.

For God's sake, (No pun intended)
If you don't want to ask the spirits the question, just say so.
The word God triggers something, doesn't it?

[Ziusudra]

Ok, pupils of spirituality,

The word GOD triggers to many and questions to each.

As many of you already stated, it is just a word, specifically an English word. GOD(s) have many names.
As I posted on one of my earlier postings in this subject, GOD can be whatever you believe as GOD.

The GOD in the question is NOT about religion.
WHY of religion and its GODs are obvious and well known.
So, this question is not about religion.

Just to be clear, I am absolutely not religious. But spiritual.

Here is the WHY of the question:
If you know the WHY of the creator, the created force, the creating energy/entity, the GOD (s), you know WHY of everything within this universe, as well as multiverse. - including you

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hello,

The question; Why does God exist? to be answered seems to imply that one has some sort of definition of "God". Whether it be through an idea, philosophy, or what one may hold as a direct experience.


All these experiences, thoughts, feelings seem to form a relationship with what may be termed as "God". In this way a existence of some kind forms, IMO and reasons form as to why. In other words depends on what kind of relationship, if any, one has with "God" and how one defines it/he/she/?.

Hey Moonglow

"God has never - anywhere in the Bible - promised to answer these questions; Why?, Where? and When.
But God answers these questions beginning with How? or What? These questions sincerely seek wisdom and guidance."
Robert H. Schuller
Turning Hurts into Halos

So, we're already off to a bad start. And a discussion of what God is or isn't - or the existence or not - is a discussion of our own consciousness and agendas. Yes I have an agenda, I have a complete distaste of the word and the connotations that have been attached to it.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Then for me there is the unknowing exactly what this "God" is anyways. If creation or the moving force/energy with in nature and life, the reasons are within living and what unfolds.

If one feels he/she simply does not know or is not settled with how "God" is defined or even defining such, then does the question really matter?

Until we know what we're actually talking about the discussion isn't going to make any real sense.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

For myself "God" exist because through the years there has been created an existence and for some awareness of such being. Called by many names and defined in many ways and through these an existence has been formed in human psyche/consciousness, IMO. It is to me simply presence felt.

But you feel the presence, so is the source internal and external? And be careful of how you answer that because I'll remind you that there is no separation.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Saying something does not exist creates the existence of that something in some way. Saying something exist, does not necessarily confirm the existence without evidence. But, how can one prove what may be known in one heart to another who does not hold the same in theirs?

The Sufis have a saying - "All beliefs go to God, but a belief in God is the strongest." Believing that God doesn't exist still goes to God, and in that way atheists do the work of God - we are all aspects of a Universe that is experiencing itself through us as perceptually individual beings.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Seems an interesting question, but the answer may not be so much about "God" as to what one finds with in oneself.

Go back to what Jesus said but listen with different ears. What Jesus said is taken within the context of a Christianity that's based on God Without - the Omnipotent Sky Daddy of them all. Jesus wasn't a Christian, the best guess is that he was a Nazorean Essene, and their context is God Within. If you look at what Jesus says, the underlying message is that we all have God inside/children of God and similar. Jesus also spent many years with people of other non-Abrahamic religions whose concept of God have nothing to do with a Supreme Being, but more 'point' to 'something' beyond the range of human consciousness. That 'something; is beyond labels and definitions and it defies expression, but it's there just the same. Calling it God or anything else simply 'taints' it.

Our relationship with God and our expression of what he/she/it is or isn't is a refection of us - and I'll put my hand up to that. To me God has become.... so many things that are not God at all.

[Shivani Devi]

Dear Greenslade, I just noticed your last sentence edit.

That is speculative conjecture, and one would need to be in that situation to be able to provide adequate response.

Having said that, the notion of "God" must have originated from somewhere in the first place, whereby hitherto there was no mention.

In mankind's "search for meaning", a notion must have been formed that somehow, there was much more to existence than what could be perceived at a local level, and God represents all of the big "unknowns" out there, and while science catches up and explains or rationalises these unknowns one by one, you and I both know that a Grand Unified Theory is still a long way off yet.

So, would I still believe in God if I had never heard of God?

I really don't know, but I would probably be aware that there was something much greater than my small, insignificant ego and would probably identity with it as such, even though I probably wouldn't use the term "God".