Why is there the need for love ...

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Nada

I did not know what Ice lollies were. and I thought you were being kinky. LOL
So I had to Google it.
And
I was somewhat disappointed that you were just talking about popsicles, and nothing kinky.
In US, we call them popsicles.

Haha .. sorry to dissapoint Nada

Although if you are after kinky I can lick my lollipop I mean popsicle in a sexy kinda way

Is it getting hot in here or is it me ......


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Haha .. sorry to dissapoint Nada

Although if you are after kinky I can lick my lollipop I mean popsicle in a sexy kinda way

Is it getting hot in here or is it me ......


x daz x

Ok,
Few popsicles heading your way.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)

Everything be it honey or marmite sustains us in some shape or form just like the air that we breathe does . The quality of air is likened to marmite and honey . The environment houses the quality of air just like the heart of the individual houses their love .

Hey :)

Yes that is true. There is a spectrum. And just as I said, some of that spectrum sustains us very poorly, and some sustains us much better.
Some is clearly recognised as what sustains us well or easily...some is clearly recogised as that which sustains us very poorly, or not at all.

This is my point. There is a spectrum, and there is that which clearly, purely, and easily sustains, heals, and gives life. And that which clearly does not. Plus a good deal of stuff in the middle.

It is the way of all life to more and more clearly recognise and seek that which is clear and pure and sustaining as love and truth. By more and more clearly, I mean with increasing levels of consciousness comes increasing levels of a conscious awareness and a conscious choice that are increasingly informed by the purity of heart, soul, and unconscious mind. All of which access and channel Spirit directly.

We are all where we are at in regards to love, some live in the city, whereas some live in the forests, some have lost the will to love, some have forgotten what love feels like, some have never tasted love, and some don't feel the need to love ..

Yes that is true but in a sense, why just love? It's not just about love any more than it's just about truth or just about spirit. It's all on us where we are in regard to love, or truth, or spirit, for they are all interchangeable. And you cannot say well I am here with love coz love sux and I'm too lazy to stretch -- but I'm over there with truth coz that's a real drag too and who wants to do any hard work or look in the mirror? -- and oh but I'm way up here with spirit coz that's ultra cool and it's all about me me meeeee (breaks into song)

In truth (/in love/in spirit), they are in fact ALL one and the same. And whichever aspect(s) point us most strongly and clearly to this reality in ALL aspects of our existence, material and nonmaterial, is the one that we most need to heed at any moment. Whether that is love, or truth, or spirit, etc.

There's no getting around it, nor that we must own our own journey and all the work at hand that is only for us to accomplish. It's only a matter of when and where we have the courage and integrity to face the next chapter or test, or the next revelation or truth. All require effort and engagement, all require character and fortitude. All require our connection to love, truth, and spirit.

Regardless of where we are on our journeys, the universal truth of love and truth in spirit applies. We can pretend or do or be whatever we like. The truth remains, and the love remains, and spirit remains, and we will accept and come to terms with it either sooner or later, whichever. But no one remains lost in denial or misdirection forever. Eternity is always "there" and eventually truth and love and spirit will be the only way. All roads will bend back around to the same point, and all will require that we do the necessary work to approach that point with ever greater clarity, purity, and strength of heart -- of love, truth, and spirit, that is.

I would agree in some respect that a type of love be it 'God's love' in your words contains a pureness of love and one is longing for a fix of that love like some kind of 'love addict' lols, and that's why many find emotional love as a love that is not as pure ..

So we keep on trying to get 'our fix of love' in the hands of another forevermore until the penny drops in so much as our constant fix is within ourselves .

x daz x

On first blush this makes some sense, but then all of us are imperfect and neither can you or anyone find the "perfect fix" within anything, including only within themselves. Not always, not forever, and not with the desired purity and consistency. It is simply not the nature of our imperfect existence.

So I'm going to have to disagree. To seek within for the "constant fix" is another illusion. We are not more perfect or more complete than anyone else, neither in our expression, our hearts, our minds, or even our souls.

That spark of divinity within ALL THINGS (not just you or me or humanity in general) may be perfect, yes, and that I agree with.

But that spark of divinity is expressed perfectly in the imperfection of ALL of physical existence and our constant striving for God/Spirit/Love/Truth/Beauth in ALL things, people, places and times. Therefore it is up to us to seek divinity in ALL possible things, people, places, and times -- and to give back to ALL things (God, self, others, all existence) an ever purer and more abundant love, truth, and spirit from an ever purer and more abundant heart.

This is what our human existence means.
We seek and strive and learn. And love and accept and treasure. Etc.

It is not only in our connection to Spirit from within our individual self that we find perfection, but also in our connection to others, to nature, and to ALL THINGS that we find THAT SAME PERFECTION. And that same perfect imperfection found in all things carries the same potential to become purer and more perfect in Love, Truth and Spirit.

Your individual connection to Spirit within is no more or less perfect than your connection to Spirit within nature, or within connection to others.

It is simply that some things or some ways of connecting may seem easier to contain, or to bound, or to control, than others. They may seem more or less safe to our fragile selves, or perhaps easier and less traumatic. Whether or not our often confused, muddy, and fear-ridden perceptions in any moment have any deeper clarity or merit whatsoever is beside the point. But seeking the fix within does not make it better or more perfect. Just more within our control, or more within our ability to isolate and contain, perhaps, than others.

Spirit is speaking to me very strongly on this point. So I hope I have been able to convey it clearly,
and thanks for sharing and giving me the opportunity to share.

Peace & blessings

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

So we keep on trying to get 'our fix of love' in the hands of another forevermore until the penny drops in so much as our constant fix is within ourselves .

On first blush this makes sense, but then all of us are imperfect and neither can you or anyone find the "perfect fix" within themselves. Not always, not forever, and not with a purity and consistency. It is simply not the nature of our imperfect existence.

So I'm going to have to disagree. To seek within for the "constant fix" is another illusion. We are not more perfect or more complete than anyone else, neither in our expression, our hearts, our minds, or even our souls..

I agree ...
In terms of just people, we are meant to be social beings, and we are also meant to give love & receive it ...
People do not thrive well w/out love ...
Humans die from the loneliness it presents or depressed ...
Granted, there are some who are not meant to have a love interest or family in this lifetime, however, there are those who simply choose not ...
"One must love themself" does not fix/treat all that ails a person ...
Its as if to say it is the only sustenance one needs or will sustain her/him throughout their life ...
I believe its an illusion, otherwise, the vast majority of people wound not go to great lengths to garner love or tolerate unacceptable behavior; we would not have the ability to create/adopt children or pets to love as well as have it reciprocated ...
"Loving one's self" is best used when applied to a person who abuses themself as well as allows others to abuse him/her ...
Otherwise, it merely sounds like a platitude - empty & useless, at the same time gives the impression the speaker has no words of comfort or anything better to say & life is merely that simple if one believes in it ...
I became completely exhausted w/that term during my active grief ...
Many people would say "all you have to do to stop the grief is to love yourself" ...
Uh, no! I had to process the grief. My suffereing was due to the loss of my cathected soulmate; it is the price we pay for love ...
The grief did not need to stop, it needed to run its course till I resolved every issue as well as accepted his death ...

Basically, the need for giving & receiving love can simply be answered by asking one's self what one expects to gain from it spiritually, emotionally & physically ...
JMHO ~

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Nada

Ok,
Few popsicles heading your way.

Hahahah

x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

This is my point. There is a spectrum, and there is that which clearly, purely, and easily sustains, heals, and gives life. And that which clearly does not.

Hey :)

I agree but one must taste the honey to know that marmite is a poor substitute .

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

It's not just about love any more than it's just about truth or just about spirit.

It's about what one thinks or feels in the moment, one can't make something about something if that something isn't there . The longing or the need for love of another will be felt or not, the love of one's self will be felt or not . It is always about what is present .

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

To seek within for the "constant fix" is another illusion.

for as long as one see's the face of another one will love another . Searching for self can at times reveal nothing more than what meets the eye similar to one digging for buried treasure may only bring to the surface an old tin can but 'what is love' or 'what is present' is not always recognised in it's full glory .
The love that you are is made aware of when one is ready to realize it and that love is not given or housed within another individual in such a way where they can give you it or show it unless you are in the presence of an individual that has tasted the honey and what is shown is perhaps rather more the essence . The love of or for a master is not the love of or for your partner unless your master is your partner, but one will not be in love with the person in that respect they will simply recognise the love of self or God or whatever word suits, the love that stems from a need for love of a person doesn't show or reveal the full spectrum .

The constant fix is 'what you are' but what you are can be in the guise or of the mold of an addict so will endlessly search for their fix . The constant fix exists, it's not an illusion the search may not bring you the fix but the fix is attainable and it has everything to do with self . The love of self in it's full glory is only recognised when there are no attachments to a separate self, the one that loves his wife with all his heart is loving the separate wife . Which brings a beautiful connection, I am not disputing that but rather pointing out 'the need for love' .

x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)

I agree but one must taste the honey to know that marmite is a poor substitute .

Hey Teddy :)

I agree but I think it can happen both ways.

Even before we taste the honey...
When the marmite does not sustain, we are already drawn to look for better, either innately and unconsciously by the truth of our bodies' and our hearts' knowledge of what is needed for health or by the reflection of our conscious mind, either one.

Tasting the honey helps though, that's for certain!

It's about what one thinks or feels in the moment, one can't make something about something if that something isn't there . The longing or the need for love of another will be felt or not, the love of one's self will be felt or not . It is always about what is present .

That's true and I'm not arguing that . What I'm saying in addition is that love is not just what you feel. It's what you are, and it's what sustains you. And that love is indistinguishable from truth and spirit.

So IMO no one can say that they do not "need" "want" or "desire" love, unless they ALSO do not need, want, or desire truth and spirit. And no one can say they DO want spirit, or truth, but that they do NOT want love -- and ALSO be integral in that moment. Because we ARE love, truth, and spirit, ALL...not just one, not just the other. And we will and must (over the span of eternity) seek to be ever more truely who and what we ARE

Put another way, there is an inherent contradiction that cannot and will not ever be resolved by trying to partition out what of our ultimate existence we will or will not BE or WANT. We ARE love, truth, and spirit, and we are OF Love, Truth, and Spirit. We can accept that now or later, but it does not change the truth of what is, and of what we are.

BTW, I find it fascinating that some of us resist truth so hard...or that some fight love so hard...or, as we all know, that many off this forum resist spirit with all their might. As all of these are simply what we are...and we are simply of all of these. It's all a part of the learning, though.

for as long as one see's the face of another one will love another . Searching for self can at times reveal nothing more than what meets the eye similar to one digging for buried treasure may only bring to the surface an old tin can but 'what is love' or 'what is present' is not always recognised in it's full glory .

The love that you are is made aware of when one is ready to realize it and that love is not given or housed within another individual in such a way where they can give you it or show it unless you are in the presence of an individual that has tasted the honey and what is shown is perhaps rather more the essence . The love of or for a master is not the love of or for your partner unless your master is your partner, but one will not be in love with the person in that respect they will simply recognise the love of self or God or whatever word suits, the love that stems from a need for love of a person doesn't show or reveal the full spectrum .

The constant fix is 'what you are' but what you are can be in the guise or of the mold of an addict so will endlessly search for their fix . The constant fix exists, it's not an illusion the search may not bring you the fix but the fix is attainable and it has everything to do with self . The love of self in it's full glory is only recognised when there are no attachments to a separate self, the one that loves his wife with all his heart is loving the separate wife . Which brings a beautiful connection, I am not disputing that but rather pointing out 'the need for love' .

x daz x

There is an awful lot in there Teds!
Let me first just look at this:

'what is love' or 'what is present' is not always recognised in it's full glory .

I agree. But it's important to note that "what is present" applies EQUALLY to the love within of self, of Spirit, of others, and of all things. AND ALSO to the love without...via connection to self, to Spirit, to others, and to all things. That's what I've been trying to say, if that makes sense to you

That is, not JUST within, and not JUST within self with regard to our individuated consciousness and individuated physical being
(including the individuated mind that exists only within the physical being). That is far, far too limiting to even begin to encompass the scope of our being -- neither the scope of the love, truth, and spirit that we are...nor the scope of the Love, Truth, and Spirit that we are of, or created from.

And as to all that other jazz you so thoughtfully wrote on..I'd say you and I do agree on this one thing, in our different ways of expression, and that is that as we go further down our paths, we resonate ever more with love, and we particularly resonate ever more with love that is purer, clearer,and more "of the essence" as you say.

And I think we agree on another thing as well (I hope)...That the love of another person is not "the ultimate fix" for any other person. Nor is the love of self "the ultimate fix" for any one person. Nor is any singular love [whatever that really means] ever "the ultimate fix" for anyone. Because any love revealed is only another part of the love we are. And no one love is ever "the ultimate fix", even the love of God/Spirit/All. Because even that love is intentionally fractal, and distributed throughout all existence. We are meant to experience the love of God/One in all things...not only in self, not only in others we love, not only in connection to God, and not only in all other things. Not only in any one of those...but rather we are meant to be love/truth/spirit and to experience love/truth/spirit with and within ALL OF THOSE.

Therefore no one source of God's fractal love could ever be "the ultimate fix"...as only through being and expressing love/truth/spirit with and within all aspects of existence could even begin to approach "the ultimate fix".
Having grasped that truth, then we ultimately cannot deny or shut ourselves off from love or truth or spirit deriving from any authentic aspect of existence. Authentic in relation to us, individually and particularly, that is. And that realisation is the next truth that we must apprehend.

And that is also what I've been trying to say ;)

Peace & blessings,
Panda

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by livingkarma

I agree ...
In terms of just people, we are meant to be social beings, and we are also meant to give love & receive it ...
People do not thrive well w/out love ...
Humans die from the loneliness it presents or depressed ...
Granted, there are some who are not meant to have a love interest or family in this lifetime, however, there are those who simply choose not ...
"One must love themself" does not fix/treat all that ails a person ...
Its as if to say it is the only sustenance one needs or will sustain her/him throughout their life ...
I believe its an illusion, otherwise, the vast majority of people wound not go to great lengths to garner love or tolerate unacceptable behavior; we would not have the ability to create/adopt children or pets to love as well as have it reciprocated ...
"Loving one's self" is best used when applied to a person who abuses themself as well as allows others to abuse him/her ...
Otherwise, it merely sounds like a platitude - empty & useless, at the same time gives the impression the speaker has no words of comfort or anything better to say & life is merely that simple if one believes in it ...
I became completely exhausted w/that term during my active grief ...
Many people would say "all you have to do to stop the grief is to love yourself" ...
Uh, no! I had to process the grief. My suffereing was due to the loss of my cathected soulmate; it is the price we pay for love ...
The grief did not need to stop, it needed to run its course till I resolved every issue as well as accepted his death ...

Basically, the need for giving & receiving love can simply be answered by asking one's self what one expects to gain from it spiritually, emotionally & physically ...
JMHO ~

LK -- I missed this sorry! Very nice post and wise words about loving the self applying in particular to those abusing themselves or who have been abused by others. Those who have not been allowed their feelings, or their physical, emotional, and spiritual needs.

And for those who say that the body has needs but that the soul and the spirit do not, I disagree. The body is no different from the soul...it is only denser and more material. But no less sacred. Just as the body has needs, so too does the heart, the soul. Just as we long for God, for Spirit, so too God longs for us (according to Kabbalah)...thus the inner wisdom of "as above, so below, in all things".

Peace & blessings
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

When the marmite does not sustain, we are already drawn to look for better .

Hey :)


I agree similar to when one begins to self inquire for one is not satisfied with their current self awareness but until they taste the realization they will still be in a kind of limbo, similar to when one identifies that emotional love is not enough to sustain them . At a point it's all in the taste .

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I agree. But it's important to note that "what is present" applies EQUALLY to the love within of self, of Spirit, of others, and of all things. AND ALSO to the love without...via connection to self, to Spirit, to others, and to all things. That's what I've been trying to say, if that makes sense to you .

Yes indeedy, where everyone is at or whatever one is feeling is equally valid or necessary in the moment for if one doesn't taste the marmite one will never relate to the sweetness of honey . The marmite experience is thus equally important and full of necessary experience . Some are marmite lovers and there is nothing wrong with that, it's still love after all .

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

And I think we agree on another thing as well (I hope)...That the love of another person is not "the ultimate fix" for any other person. Nor is the love of self "the ultimate fix" for any one person. Nor is any singular love [whatever that really means] ever "the ultimate fix" for anyone. Because any love revealed is only another part of the love we are.

I do see self love as a constant fix because to realize self is to realize that they are love (as words go) . If one realizes that they are love then one does not need love because they are it . They would not be longing for the love of a lover or of a puppy but one can still love the lover and the puppy equally because one would see no difference . I think seeing difference in love holds the answer in self reflection, when one loves the tree more than the bird or their self identity more than anothers ..

How I have experienced it is that there was nothing present other than what I am to love, everything had gone lols but if that moment happened in the waking world than in that moment I would have loved everything the same .

x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)


I agree similar to when one begins to self inquire for one is not satisfied with their current self awareness but until they taste the realization they will still be in a kind of limbo, similar to when one identifies that emotional love is not enough to sustain them . At a point it's all in the taste .

Hey there :)

I'd say take it much further and then keep going!

It's more than just to do with not being satisfied with one's awareness (self) or love of another. At some point, one realises that no one person, place, thing, or no-thing is "enough" to sustain them, including the self. At some point, one realises that the love of all persons, places, things, and no-things are a part of what is needed in order to be sustained, to be realised, and simply to be, most fully in truth and spirit.

Yes indeedy, where everyone is at or whatever one is feeling is equally valid or necessary in the moment for if one doesn't taste the marmite one will never relate to the sweetness of honey . The marmite experience is thus equally important and full of necessary experience . Some are marmite lovers and there is nothing wrong with that, it's still love after all .

Yes, I agree. All is love, but in greater or lesser expression of purity, clarity, truth, and beauty.

And as we travel on our journey, we ever more come to desire and long for that love which is in ever purer expression of purity, clarity, truth, and beauty. Wherever we may find that love, be it in self, in God, in others, and in all existence. And here is the truth...that Love, the Love which is God, IS in ALL THINGS...in self, in Spirit, in others, and in all existence. That is where we will and do find it...and that is where we will and must seek it. Everywhere, and in all things.

I do see self love as a constant fix because to realize self is to realize that they are love (as words go) . If one realizes that they are love then one does not need love because they are it . They would not be longing for the love of a lover or of a puppy but one can still love the lover and the puppy equally because one would see no difference . I think seeing difference in love holds the answer in self reflection, when one loves the tree more than the bird or their self identity more than anothers ..

If one realises that they are love, then one freely gives and receives love, because there is no deficit of love, no scarcity or finite limit on love.
To participate freely in our being (which is love) with all existence is only to resonate, expand, and be at one with ourselves and all else in existence.

To be love is to share of our essence in our being, in our expression. The concept of lack is not even relevant here. How can we lack what we are? In a place of no lack, there is no withholding, no aggression, and no fear, for there is no scarcity. The concept of being self-sustaining is an illusion in the reality of interbeing. We inter-are. There is no pure self, only a pure Self. And we experience that Self only through our interwoven selves and through the tapestry of all existence.

The love we are, and the expression of love as what we are, is also interwoven with all and has interbeing with all. It cannot be just for the individuated self, even if we perceive at this time that in fact this is so or that this is what is best or desired. If we believe that one source of love (like the self) is preferable to another, then we have simply chosen not to be in full awareness of the love we are. We will have limited our perception with this hierarchy or preference of some love over others, and as a result, we will have constrained the amount of truth in love that we can apprehend, along with much of our potential for growth and for joy in that truth. For us then, the truth of love, and the growth and joy in that truth, will necessarily await that time when we are able to move beyond all perceptions or hierarchies of love based in fear or lack.

Here, in the being and expression of love, there is no place for withholding or for aggressiveness, for fear, or for perceptions and actions based on scarcity.
There IS however an eternal and enduring place for love, and compassion, and kindness -- and for strength and truth -- all of which after all may eventually heal the fear, the perceptions of scarcity, the need to withhold or do violence. Love may even heal apathy, given time. Sometimes an eternity or two, but in time, with love, all things are possible.

How I have experienced it is that there was nothing present other than what I am to love, everything had gone lols but if that moment happened in the waking world than in that moment I would have loved everything the same.

x daz x

Daz, IMO this is not the love of self that leads to the love of all. It is in receiving the love of All (from whatever source) into your self, into your heart, that allows for all love to be. You may first receive the love of All from a divine love of self. Or you may first receive it from a personal connection to God. Or you may receive the love of All from the love of others. Or from nature, or all existence.

Whether the love of self, the love of God, the love of others, or the love of all things, of all existence. Once you have received love fully into your heart, and once the love has transformed you, then no matter the source, then all could cease to be...and it would matter not, for you would still be love and you could still express love for all things just the same.

I agree with your general ideas in their main direction. However I find it extremely confusing and misleading to either highlight or castigate any one source of love as better or worse than another. All may and potentially do reflect the love of All, and all sources of love are ultimately needed for our ultimate growth and sustenance. It may be that right here and now, some love seems good or expansive to you (i.e., loving self in a personal way) and some seems bad or limiting to you (loving others in a personal way), but that is strictly relative to your perception at this point in time. It is not common to all people or times or places. And likely not even common to you over time, as you grow and change in whatever way. Others feel similar hostility or negativity toward the love of God due to religious constraints, or they feel no love for nature, or no compassion for strangers, or for all existence. Just for example.

Do you see how IMO there is no wrong love and no better source of the love of All, and that we only limit and misdirect ourselves by saying that in fact this is so? If anything, our current beliefs that some sources of love are better and some are no good or are limited only point us to our own biases and traumas, which clearly are opportunities for self-work and for healing that we have set before ourselves in this lifetime. If only we've the courage and strength to address them with love and compassion and truth.

My realisation is that no one source of love is "enough" to ultimately sustain you, since we are meant to be in expression of love with regard to all things.
Everything in existence, and not just the love of self, nor just love of another.

Peace & blessings Teddy
Panda