Feeling cynical about it today.. maybe we won't even know the truth when we die??

[metal68]

Scenario 1

The believer in the afterlife dies, then finds there is no afterlife, it's the end. full stop. He can never know he was wrong though can he? Is that good or bad?

Scenario 2

The atheist dies, still no afterlife. Proven to be correct in his life long beliefs but never able to become aware. Is that even worse?

Which is the most tragic of the two? That the atheist ultimately cannot prove his conviction or that the believer wasn't able to think for a few seconds , OMG, I WAS WRONG

Im having a cynical day today, just been on the Afterlife 101 site, full of information yes but all these (as much as can be)reliable sources like Zammit, Roberta Grimes, Bob Olsen and this site and even if Spirit Guide Sparrow can't seem to agree whether we have bodies, whether there are buildings etc, even reincarnation. Surely there ought to be more consistency?? Somebody's wrong somewhere.

Just got this feeling that although I want to believe, I'm conning myself, maybe we all are. I wouldn't have entertained any of it before my mum's death.

I guess I need a hug and a fillip

Ive been cynical as well lately.

However, sweet oblivion into nothingness sounds good to me. I wouldn't know the difference.

My belief system tho is based on faith and a lot of research that resonates with me.

I think scenario one would be worse. I fit that category. It would mean a lot of wasted time and effort and research down the toilet.

The atheist would have it better imo.

Hugs

[El Kabong]

I wish I could give you the peace of complete certainty , that I have received from my husband sence he passed over last summer. I have had him come to me in a solid form on fore ocations. When we embraced he was solid and warm, I could feel his breath on my face.
He tells me it's as real where he is as it is here. I'm not sure about all this other stuff , but I believe my husband .
Big hugs!

[wstein]

Probably worse is fully coming to terms with there being no 'afterlife'. Upon death one suddenly discovers they are wrong and utterly unprepared. Sorry, death was no way out.

[vespa68]

Originally Posted by El Kabong

I wish I could give you the peace of complete certainty , that I have received from my husband sence he passed over last summer. I have had him come to me in a solid form on fore ocations. When we embraced he was solid and warm, I could feel his breath on my face.
He tells me it's as real where he is as it is here. I'm not sure about all this other stuff , but I believe my husband .
Big hugs!

I have had this experience many times too which is quite reassuring.

[vespa68]

I think its frustrating reading these books that have divergent views. I lost someone I loved very much. I was open to spirituality but its very different when that loved one comes to you in spirit. You have to have your own experiences and use your own intuition. We def have bodies. Since this experience with spirit I had my own spiritual awakening and am now a medium. I have asked spirit many times and always get that we have solid bodies so dont know what other people in books are talking about. I have found quite a few books that say we do have bodies and those are from mediums or people who astral travel. They have their experiences. I think people are stuck in their 3d perspectives and dont realize that its just a matter of vibrations. Once we are in another dimension our vibrations are just faster but everything will be just as solid as here. I have also asked my guide about this.I think I have told u my views on this in another thread.

[wolfgaze]

Originally Posted by metal68

Just got this feeling that although I want to believe, I'm conning myself, maybe we all are. I wouldn't have entertained any of it before my mum's death.

Yet that does not necessarily validate your prior way of thinking/perceiving - you know?

I had a similar life experience as you as it was my Mom's passing that served as the catalyst for me to explore the possibility and implications of a spiritual existence - and to earnestly seek answers and the truth of the matter.

What you experienced, as far as the sequence of events, is natural. Here is an excerpt from a book authored by a well known Transpersonal Psychologist:

"Thus, death in the family is often a time of initiation into spiritual realms for those left behind. New capacities for interacting with spiritual dimensions are brought forth and need to be dealt with. Profound questions arise that must be answered. Often death of a loved one is the first time people stop to really question the meaning of life and begin seeking an answer." ~ Emma Bragdon

This is exactly what I experienced. After several years of periodic seeking, exploring, questioning, contemplating, self-reflecting - I began to experience internal changes that were completely unexpected. The 'inner work' I had engaged in served to elevate and expand my state of awareness and this initiated a process of spiritual awakening within me. When this process culminated, my awareness and state of being had become profoundly transformed. Mental suffering becomes a thing of the past because you have transcended your former conscious identification with the physical mind, and you are imparted with an intuitive 'knowing' of the nature of your existence that enables you to leave all 'belief' and 'doubt' behind - there is no more uncertainty. You know you exist independent of this physical body you are experiencing.

So I say to you, don't give up your endeavor and your practices. Keep seeking, exploring, questioning and pushing forward. What's really important is not that you find and identify the 'right beliefs' to latch onto, but that you find ways to grow, expand, and elevate your state of awareness. THAT is the transformative agent and what serves to take you beyond your former self (state of being) - and as that happens you will experience insights, intuitions, and realizations that take you into a whole new realm of understanding your true nature (which also applies to your loved ones, and everyone else).

Kind Regards,
~wolfgaze

[Tobi]

Originally Posted by metal68

Scenario 1

The believer in the afterlife dies, then finds there is no afterlife, it's the end. full stop. He can never know he was wrong though can he? Is that good or bad?

Scenario 2

The atheist dies, still no afterlife. Proven to be correct in his life long beliefs but never able to become aware. Is that even worse?

Which is the most tragic of the two? That the atheist ultimately cannot prove his conviction or that the believer wasn't able to think for a few seconds , OMG, I WAS WRONG

Im having a cynical day today, just been on the Afterlife 101 site, full of information yes but all these (as much as can be)reliable sources like Zammit, Roberta Grimes, Bob Olsen and this site and even if Spirit Guide Sparrow can't seem to agree whether we have bodies, whether there are buildings etc, even reincarnation. Surely there ought to be more consistency?? Somebody's wrong somewhere.

Just got this feeling that although I want to believe, I'm conning myself, maybe we all are. I wouldn't have entertained any of it before my mum's death.

I guess I need a hug and a fillip

It's all a lot to take on board and can bog you down.

I totally understand that feeling, metal68.
I used to think very similar thoughts, then let go of the whole caboodle, and just lived my life regardless. But it used to sometimes upset me when I thought "Where does LOVE go? All the love we give and receive is suddenly annihilated??"
However, I accepted that it probably went nowhere. And all the joys and pains of this world were confined to this world and our lives here. That didn't make me want to love any less, or receive less joy from being loved. And it didn't stop me enjoying a run, or my dinner!
And it didn't seem to matter. I thought that if there is a continued existence, I will find out one day, and get on with it just as I get on with this life -and if there isn't then it's just lights out. I couldn't find much wrong with either possibility.

I refused to 'believe' in any particular thing. My attitude was I want to know. If I didn't know I kept as open a mind as I could, but couldn't know without evidence strong enough to show me for 100% sure.
I know me, and know any evidence would have to be personally irrefutable.

Now the one thing nobody can do is to convince someone else from their own personal experiences. Neither can anyone convince someone else of their own soundness of mind and perceptions, or ability to discriminate.

But if you and I were on a walk and I said, "There is a huge hole on that track ahead. I know because I walked there umpteen times. I don't believe there is a hole there. I actually know there is", you would probably listen carefully, accept that as true.
But if I said, "I know that our loved ones -and eventually ourselves -pass into another living state after their physical death. I know because I have experienced it first-hand with loved ones", you may find that hard to accept as true.
Possibly because the many voices 'against' come from those we have been conditioned to trust. And possibly because some of the voices 'for' come from those who can often sound a bit flaky....

Okay so what I found out (very long story short here!) was that we do indeed 'cross over' into another dimension after the body dies.
'Another dimension' sounds so bizarre, but it isn't really. Your innermost thoughts and feelings are on a separate 'dimension' to your eating, sleeping, working, physical form. TV and radio signals constantly pass through the very room where you're sitting now, but you don't know they are there unless you have a receiver which picks them up.
Wow! So I found out they still live, and perfectly well in this place we find hard to know about!

What may help you most is to focus all the love you have towards a loved one who has passed. Then sit back in some stillness, be patient and be observant inwardly of any response. You may find nothing happens. Don't lose patience if that occurs. Just keep doing it. Do it with a gentle grace, or even when you're sad and missing them. Even through tears. Do it with humour, or fun, and gather your heartfelt thoughts together to re-piece (re-member) the essence of the one you love. But do it with lightness and good spirit.
You don't have to be psychic. You don't have to be a medium. You don't have to be 'advanced'. All you need is love.
At the very least they will sense you. Most likely they will respond. Some find this mechanism a bit hard to do but some learn quickly. So do be patient with unconditional love.

What about disabled people - or those who die young - like the massacred in Tunisia - or on that German Wings flight.

It does seem very cruel to have this life as the only type of existence.

Even with all the new material you still have to believe.

I feel we all have an inner knowing when we are been told the truth and when people are lying.

I have a good belief now, and ready to put this chapter to rest, but I still love reading stories about NDEs!

[LPC]

Originally Posted by Tobi

But if you and I were on a walk and I said, "There is a huge hole on that track ahead. I know because I walked there umpteen times. I don't believe there is a hole there. I actually know there is", you would probably listen carefully, accept that as true.
But if I said, "I know that our loved ones -and eventually ourselves -pass into another living state after their physical death. I know because I have experienced it first-hand with loved ones", you may find that hard to accept as true.

That's a fantastic analogy. There are countless people who have had contact with those who have passed over, and to be honest the details (e.g. are there buildings?) do not matter. Maybe all those people who have had contact are mentally ill or self-deceiving, but I doubt it. It is just that people are often willing to accept statements such as "I saw it" or "I heard it" when referring to physical things - although of course there are liars. But when it is something intangible, their willingness to believe such statements can disappear.

Originally Posted by Tobi

TV and radio signals constantly pass through the very room where you're sitting now, but you don't know they are there unless you have a receiver which picks them up."

Indeed. If one were talking with a person who had never seen or heard of a radio and told this person, "Radio waves exist. I have heard broadcasts. They can travel for hundreds of miles and pass through solid walls" - s/he would, no doubt, think one to be mentally ill or an extreme fantasist!

If you want proof and the accounts of others do not convince you, then the best way forward is to seek evidence yourself. You could learn to astral project and make contact with loved ones who have passed. You could get some EVP apparatus and try to get recordings, etc....

Nothing convinces more than your own evidence. Every best wish to you!