HELP! Wife having spiritual awakening/marriage in peril

[Clover]

Fieldingmellish, myself as a woman who went through an 'awakening' while being married ( I am now divorced) I would say 7lumnaries assessment is 100% spot on ( at least I identify with it) I almost guarantee your wife would understand what was stated, imho You would have to look at these situations from a greater scope-the whole picture. Really, in most cases, It's not about someone else..


I highlighted my favorite parts....

Originally Posted by 7Lumnaries

Your wife or your ex-wife is part of a larger process which impacts her personally in ways that cannot be contained simply to her relationship with you, in either the fullness of it or the understanding of it. This in no way diminishes (or relieves) your very real pain, of course.

Putting aside this other crush, he may simply be only a pointer on her path.
The path being the next steps on her journey. I am going to speak of it universally...because it is universal, and it is universally experienced by each of us in our own individual way and context.

As a woman, in the time and place in which we live...and in the current and historic social and cultural environment, she is at a place where she will consciously need to take whatever steps are required in order to grow up as a soul. To spiritually mature, we all come to a place where we have to start taking ownership for our lives and our choices. For many women, this means learning to balance our energies and lives in ways that make us stronger, more courageous, more independent, and less aligned with submission and domination in our relationships. Learning not to depend too much on others emotionally, financially, or in other ways.

This is not to say that we don't seek loving partnerships, but we also come to want partnerships that are equitable and where we have the power to truly say no and to truly speak our truth. Where we are seen as fully equal and fully valued and honoured in our humanity and in our differences to men. The modern great lie (among several) is that women are men in every way but genitalia. That is not true and it papers over the reality of our separateness and our individuality. We want partnerships where there is union but not merging and submerging, dissolving into the man and his life and his expectations and his mold of what is desirable and pleases him, etc. We want to be loved and valued first and foremost as people and as beloved friends in our committed partnerships...(this does not mean FwB, shacking up, or any other form of exploitative arrangement)

These truly equal and equitable partnerships largely don't exist, for all the good intentions of many. We have to become entirely new individuals, metamorphosised and transformed, in order to truly know and live in this new partnership...which has not yet fully come to be. Most men still want the old ways of the last half-century or even earlier...and those ways serve women poorly, meaning only if they are submissive and/or sexually non-discriminating and readily available, and typically all of these are demanded by most men whilst dating. The woman should then remain grateful, submissive and compliant whilst married, but should no longer be promiscuous as that is supposedly only for each man, who thinks himself unique in that she should have been on offer and readily available for him but no other. Little to no thought is given to how this affects the woman, who is expected to prostitute herself repeatedly in order to spend any real time getting to know any man.

Men are comfortable with how things are, meaning the woman puts herself out for you and gives your all of herself from the get-go, and you road test it for a while and see how you feel about it. 9 of 10 times, you move on and she is expected to do the same for the next gent, and the next. Even in a committed partnership or marriage, this dynamic of the woman putting herself out before marriage or commitment is the dominant one and is widespread (though not universal).

Most men figure the woman they may settle on is eternally grateful but she brings the whole load of traumatic, imbalanced, exploitative male-female baggage with her, no matter how "with it" she may seem. The more she participated in normative mainstream relationships with men, the more trauma she carries. This is in addition to any childhood stuff. This part is nearly universal to all women, even if they had great childhoods. She is expected to accept her secondary status in life, work, society, and even her partnership and marriage for the rest of her life.

She is expected to carry the emotional load in most relationships, do most of the emotional caring and giving and bending, do most of the childrearing and often the lion's share of the housekeeping (laundry, cleaning, errands, shopping, etc) in many relationships -- and still be compliant and on offer for the man. It's not a great deal and never has been...except that we had no choice historically. And it is potentially a very good thing to have 2 parents in home if it were a truly equitable, balanced, and authentically loving partnership. Where both partners sought the highest good for the other equally to the self, and nothing to do with your needs, wants, egos, and demands.

Ideally, it is and would be best to have both parents...and ideally it would be best to have authentically loving partnerships. But 99% of humanity aren't there yet. It's not to say some can't grow into a truly authentic love for one another. But in all honesty, it's very, very difficult to base the start of a relationship upon sexual desire and availability and compliance, and upon ego boosting and a meeting of two persons not yet mature and independent and balanced in and of themselves. Partnerships form and marriages form, but the lion's share lack the foundation of authentic love because they were or are based first on sexual and ego needs and demands and expectations. And it's very difficult to come to a new arrangement for many when they did not come to a place of knowing and loving the other as a person and as a beloved friend before getting sexually intimate and before making gigantic boat loads of demands (regarding sex, sexual exclusivity, emotional caretaking and bootlicking, and physical &/or financial demands, etc).

Unfortunately, most men and women will get out of one imbalanced sexual relationship or marriage and into another of the same general tenor and foundations. Folks need to make inner work a priority in order to move forward. All this I've shared about women may be deeper than a lot of gents want to go with partnerships, unless they've had a transformative experience of their own. They may or may not be willing AND able to engage with women as true equals and see all women and value them as they are and not for what she gives them or what they need from her. But...regardless of many men's lack of interest in meeting women as equals...anyway this is where women are heading, more and more often -- though with varying degrees of awareness and clarity. Those things are often lacking in many women, as they too have to do their inner work. They have to begin anew with how they approach men and they need to re-evaluate how courageous and honest they need to be up front, in order not to continue to be used, devalued, and taken for granted by men.

Long story short, it's a sign of the times...the trauma of what has transpired over the last half-century (and all of history prior) is unsustainable in its level of exploitation and flagrant utilitarianism. Women desire equitable relationships with men which do not require ongoing prostitution (unpaid) and submission/people pleasing. We too want to be loved and valued as we are, as people. [color="Teal"]That is an immensely radical, insurrectionist, and game-changing propostition. And if it's not properly sorted up front, slowly, over time, with a getting to know and love one another simply as people within a context of authentic love-- nothing sexual or ego-driven as the (shaky, perilous) foundation -- then most partnerships and marriages are at high risk for a bust-up if built on the current, mainstream paradigm.

So on that note...it will be up to the men to get on their own path and meet up with us down the road...in fellowship, authentic love, and solidarity.

I wish you many blessings and God speed on your journey

Peace & blessings,
7L

[fieldingmellish]

Originally Posted by Fox Spirit

Fieldingmellish, myself as a woman who went through an 'awakening' while being married ( I am now divorced) I would say 7lumnaries assessment is 100% spot on ( at least I identify with it) I almost guarantee your wife would understand what was stated, imho You would have to look at these situations from a greater scope-the whole picture. Really, in most cases, It's not about someone else..


I highlighted my favorite parts....

Not that it matters, but allow me to respond in kind to the passages you highlighted.

"she is at a place where she will consciously need to take whatever steps are required in order to grow up as a soul. To spiritually mature, we all come to a place where we have to start taking ownership for our lives and our choices."

Absolutely--and that may come at the expense of our marriage and family, but sure...she's undergoing a metamorphosis. I get it.

"The woman should then remain grateful, submissive and compliant whilst married, but should no longer be promiscuous as that is supposedly only for each man, who thinks himself unique in that she should have been on offer and readily available for him but no other. Little to no thought is given to how this affects the woman, who is expected to prostitute herself repeatedly in order to spend any real time getting to know any man."

I have to be honest that I mildly resent this implication. I didn't expect my wife to remain grateful or submissive, or compliant. In fact, in our relationship, I would say my wife was the alpha partner (she is the entrepreneurial one and is way more handy than I am), and yet I never felt emasculated in any way or threatened by her assuming these traditionally more "male" roles. Prostituting herself? Again, I can't speak from her or a woman's perspective, but in me, she had a loving, warm, supportive partner who never forced her to "prostitute" herself in any way shape or form.

"She is expected to carry the emotional load in most relationships, do most of the emotional caring and giving and bending, do most of the childrearing and often the lion's share of the housekeeping (laundry, cleaning, errands, shopping, etc) in many relationships -- and still be compliant and on offer for the man. It's not a great deal and never has been...except that we had no choice historically. And it is potentially a very good thing to have 2 parents in home if it were a truly equitable, balanced, and authentically loving partnership. Where both partners sought the highest good for the other equally to the self, and nothing to do with your needs, wants, egos, and demands."

Again, completely inapplicable for our situation. I would say that I actually do 75% of the child rearing, in ADDITION to being the person who has always been the breadwinner since day one. The money I make allows us to live and has also allowed her the freedom to live an entrepreneurial existence. I do a lion's share of grocery shopping, laundry, wash all the dishes, take care of our cat, and never, ever hardly go out for a "night with the boys." My son and my wife have always been priority number one. A few months ago she wanted to fly back east to have a "wine weekend" with her girlfriends? What did I do while she hung with her pals? I took care of my kid. Now, you won't get an argument from me that women have historically gotten a raw deal, but again, in our relationship, I'm not only present and active in husbandry and fatherhood, I love(d) every second of it. When we first met, I was making a living as a touring drummer. I got an offer to go on tour with another band and she told me "she didn't know if she could handle it." I turned it down. Why? Because she wasn't comfortable with it. I changed my life for her (and admittedly...her for me).

Anyway, whatever. I'm not saying I was perfect by any stretch but saying "peace out" to our marriage without doing any real work together to try to improve it is basically taking the easy way out. I'm sorry but it is.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by jro5139

7L...I just love you and you're responses:)

Have a look at the history of marriage, originally set up as a Property Arrangement.... and the property that was being passed along.... was the women.

Kind of sickening really when you think about it. But the good new is.... we are not property anymore! We get to be people now...yay!

Aww jro..I love you too and I am always, always so touched by the affirmation and love and kindness we all show one another here. Whenever I receive some heartfelt love and kindness here on SF, I am really so moved and I just want to send some big hugs back atcha .

Yes we get to be people now What an awesome line !!!
I will be quoting that one..LOL!

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Fox Spirit

Fieldingmellish, myself as a woman who went through an 'awakening' while being married ( I am now divorced) I would say 7lumnaries assessment is 100% spot on ( at least I identify with it) I almost guarantee your wife would understand what was stated, imho You would have to look at these situations from a greater scope-the whole picture. Really, in most cases, It's not about someone else..


I highlighted my favorite parts....

Fox Spirit..thank you so much for your feedback and I'm so glad to know that it resonated with you as someone who has been through it

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by fieldingmellish

Not that it matters, but allow me to respond in kind to the passages you highlighted.

"she is at a place where she will consciously need to take whatever steps are required in order to grow up as a soul. To spiritually mature, we all come to a place where we have to start taking ownership for our lives and our choices."

Absolutely--and that may come at the expense of our marriage and family, but sure...she's undergoing a metamorphosis. I get it.

Fielding, I really do feel for your pain and I really do mean it when I wish you all the best on your journey in dealing with this.

Things happen to us and we experience it personally. But even in intimate relationships, it's not all about us, and that disconnect makes for a lot of our pain and suffering, since it all gets funneled through our individual consciousness and body.

I know understanding doesn't provide immediate relief...nothing does. But I do believe that understanding can provide long-term healing...and that's why I shared what I did. I'm responding here to you personally again, because you didn't really respond to me earlier.

So let's give it another go, eh?

"The woman should then remain grateful, submissive and compliant whilst married, but should no longer be promiscuous as that is supposedly only for each man, who thinks himself unique in that she should have been on offer and readily available for him but no other. Little to no thought is given to how this affects the woman, who is expected to prostitute herself repeatedly in order to spend any real time getting to know any man."

I have to be honest that I mildly resent this implication. I didn't expect my wife to remain grateful or submissive, or compliant. In fact, in our relationship, I would say my wife was the alpha partner (she is the entrepreneurial one and is way more handy than I am), and yet I never felt emasculated in any way or threatened by her assuming these traditionally more "male" roles. Prostituting herself? Again, I can't speak from her or a woman's perspective, but in me, she had a loving, warm, supportive partner who never forced her to "prostitute" herself in any way shape or form.

You may have missed the point and that's ok. I'll be blunt here. Given the culture of the last 50 or so years has TBH really degraded women and has conditioned the way most men view women...the reality is most men expect sex before love or even a firm like. And otherwise, unless they somehow knew you already, they'll not bother to spend much time getting to know you even superficially. Unless they can reasonably expect sex soon after dating commences. This is extremely traumatic for most women if they participate in the dating scene and also go along with men's sexual demands in order to date exclusively, and it creates a lot of internal trauma which they are forced to bury as no one gives a damn, for the most part.

I'll assume you weren't the first for your wife, though I'll also assume you two also had sex well before you both knew you deeply loved & cared for each other and well before you committed to your partnership in marriage. Again, most women have been through at least a handful of what they thought were serious and emotionally intimate relationships with sexual intimacy. And in retrospect, they realise too often it was mainly about the sex and all her emotional giving for the man. It was not about life partnership or a deep, mutual authentic love for the man regarding the woman most of the time. This is also extremely traumatic for the woman...and again, she has to bury it as no one really gives a damn.

This is prostitution for free, in essence. The woman is playing geisha for the man she is with, giving him her heart as well as her body and living as if they are committed for life. The man does nothing but show up and perhaps commit to sexual exclusivity if he prefers a serial monagamy/one woman pattern of relationships​. This does not mean the man authentically loved 9 of 10 women he slept with or had relationships with. Maybe 1 in 10 he truly loved and wanted to partner with for life. The fact that the woman is wired to treat all men she gives her heart and body to as her life partner means that relationships are extremely traumatic for women when they are not loved as they love. And that is the reality she and most women carry into any relationship. The reality that they have not been known or loved deeply by most of the men they have known and loved and been sexually intimate with, often even husbands.

Even if you were perfect, she almost guaranteed had trauma from her life in this culture in relationships with other men, just on average, nothing special. And if you expected her to sleep with you before you'd spent months getting to know and love her first and foremost as a person and as a friend...then you too have contributed to the trauma, even if you committed later. I'm not saying it's your fault. I'm just saying, this is what is. And this is how women experience the demands of men under the current cultural paradigm, in which men typically demand sex from women as a condition of getting to know them at all. Well ahead of authentically knowing and loving them... Neither of which may ever occur and frequently does not ever occur.

"She is expected to carry the emotional load in most relationships, do most of the emotional caring and giving and bending, do most of the childrearing and often the lion's share of the housekeeping (laundry, cleaning, errands, shopping, etc) in many relationships -- and still be compliant and on offer for the man. It's not a great deal and never has been...except that we had no choice historically. And it is potentially a very good thing to have 2 parents in home if it were a truly equitable, balanced, and authentically loving partnership. Where both partners sought the highest good for the other equally to the self, and nothing to do with your needs, wants, egos, and demands."

Again, completely inapplicable for our situation. I would say that I actually do 75% of the child rearing, in ADDITION to being the person who has always been the breadwinner since day one. The money I make allows us to live and has also allowed her the freedom to live an entrepreneurial existence. I do a lion's share of grocery shopping, laundry, wash all the dishes, take care of our cat, and never, ever hardly go out for a "night with the boys." My son and my wife have always been priority number one. A few months ago she wanted to fly back east to have a "wine weekend" with her girlfriends? What did I do while she hung with her pals? I took care of my kid. Now, you won't get an argument from me that women have historically gotten a raw deal, but again, in our relationship, I'm not only present and active in husbandry and fatherhood, I love(d) every second of it. When we first met, I was making a living as a touring drummer. I got an offer to go on tour with another band and she told me "she didn't know if she could handle it." I turned it down. Why? Because she wasn't comfortable with it. I changed my life for her (and admittedly...her for me).

Anyway, whatever. I'm not saying I was perfect by any stretch but saying "peace out" to our marriage without doing any real work together to try to improve it is basically taking the easy way out. I'm sorry but it is.

Fielding, if you have been such a saint and a supportive mate, she's bound to realise your contributions, if not right now, then down the road.

This further adds to what I am saying in that the lion's share of this may have nothing to do with you. It seems you are far, far more supportive day to day with the work of life at home than most men...and so you can rest assured it is not that. Because so often that is a large part of why women feel overworked, underpaid, unappreciated, completely devalued (no one hears or sees them, or cares for their thoughts and feelings) and invisible. If you have helped out at home and have also heard and seen her, then you have all the skills needed make a relationship work. Just not perhaps with this woman.

You always need to keep in mind though that we are our own persons...and many of us are just waking up to that. All the stuff you do or have and even all that you are cannot compel another to stay if she feels that you two are not well suited. Sometimes, it's nothing you did or said. It's not about you or who you are. Sometimes, it's just about them.

Also, you need to remember that any woman you meet is likely to have suffered a fair amount of spiritual trauma from the relationship culture which demands women prostitute themselves for men, for free, in the hopes of maybe finding one who cares and will commit. It takes a very strong woman to cope with this trauma, and an even stronger woman to step back from this "culture" and ask for men who will take the time to get to know her and love her as a person and as a friend before asking for (not demanding) sex within the context of a loving, committed partnership.

Would you be ready, willing, and able to do that with other women, should you separate and divorce? Are you strong enough to own your game and do you have enough love in your heart for women to see that their needs are different in this way, and yet still honour those needs equally to your own needs and desires?

Do you see how complex this is, and how it involves you and all men, in addition to her and all women?

Peace & blessings
7L

[Ascophore]

Originally Posted by fieldingmellish

Hi everyone.
I've been married to my wife for 5 years, together for 10.
we have a 4 year old together.
Ever since we've met, she has been spiritually active, devouring new age/self help texts like "The Secret," etc.
We had what I thought was a healthy, happy relationship and family.
About 2 months ago, at a work-related event, she met a guy whom she felt an intense "connection" to (no affair). (In his defense, it seems like he was probably oblivious to her feeling these things)
Apparently the connection/attraction was strong enough that it triggered an intense emotional response from her, which I've learned is her "spiritual awakening."
She is pulling further and further away from me, and our marriage now hangs in the balance.
She has basically said that her love for me has transitioned from romantic to platonic. We haven't really had sex in a while and she doesn't seem to want to be around me very much.
To say I'm devastated would be an understatement, mostly because we have a child together and I don't know how all this will play out.
I love her very much and want this to work out but also realize I can't be a round peg in a square hole. She's also insistent that because she's on this path to enlightenment/higher consciousness/whatever that I can't possibly understand what she's going through--which may be true. I don't doubt she's having a spiritual emergency but I also don't want to see my whole world crumble.
I also understand the "if you love someone set them free" maxim. I can't force her to feel things for me if she doesn't feel them anymore.
I just find it inconceivable how fast this is all happening. It's like she took a trip and never returned.
I'd like to add that I don't doubt the legitimacy of her experience--she is definitely going through something. But I find it hard to swallow that she wants to throw our entire 10 year history--and family--away because of this spiritual awakening. (to be fair, the awakening isn't all about us--she also has childhood traumas and other issues she wants to work through that have been repressed)
We are hoping to see a marriage counselor this week, but I feel like that may be an empty exercise...her mind seems kind of made up that she's not really into me anymore. I feel scared, isolated, abandoned--and to boot, as I've mentioned, I have a job to do and a child to raise--so I can't just curl up in a fetal position and cry my pain away.
If she wants to leave me, i will let her go. If we're meant to be, we will be I guess. But I just find this all so hard to fathom.
Looking for advice and guidance.

If she leaves she'll probably take your kid and her court-ordered "cash and prizes" and then just take this Chad over to Honolulu for an extended honeymoon. You've got to get primal now if you want to keep her. Something this screwball did basically put a spell on your wife and triggered something in the "reptile brain". You've got to put a spell right back there...if you want to waste your time that is.

Sounds to me like this person you met wasn't all that faithful to begin with. Was she some form of rebound girl when you first met? Sadly, she doesn't sound worth it to me. I'd let her flat-out know that if she's leaving she's never coming back and this has to be of your own volition. If she leaves you lock that traitor right out and throw away the key. "Oh? It didn't work out?" - Too bad, life has consequences for decisions who'd a thought!

Sounds to me like you have your life in order, have a decent job and more than earn your keep as a breadwinner. Just be cautious for gold-diggers and you'll probably be much happier in the end. Still, if you're square-set on seeing what the marriage counselor will say then see what she has to say. Just don't let the marriage counselor turn this into a "you're such a bad guy!" direction. If it starts turning that way bring up nonsense that will swing in your favor. It's going to be a one-sided battle for the most part but I believe in you.

[fieldingmellish]

Originally Posted by Ascophore

If she leaves she'll probably take your kid and her court-ordered "cash and prizes" and then just take this Chad over to Honolulu for an extended honeymoon. You've got to get primal now if you want to keep her. Something this screwball did basically put a spell on your wife and triggered something in the "reptile brain". You've got to put a spell right back there...if you want to waste your time that is.

Sounds to me like this person you met wasn't all that faithful to begin with. Was she some form of rebound girl when you first met? Sadly, she doesn't sound worth it to me. I'd let her flat-out know that if she's leaving she's never coming back and this has to be of your own volition. If she leaves you lock that traitor right out and throw away the key. "Oh? It didn't work out?" - Too bad, life has consequences for decisions who'd a thought!

Sounds to me like you have your life in order, have a decent job and more than earn your keep as a breadwinner. Just be cautious for gold-diggers and you'll probably be much happier in the end. Still, if you're square-set on seeing what the marriage counselor will say then see what she has to say. Just don't let the marriage counselor turn this into a "you're such a bad guy!" direction. If it starts turning that way bring up nonsense that will swing in your favor. It's going to be a one-sided battle for the most part but I believe in you.

i understand the impulse to want to "lock her out," but the reality is...the future is still unwritten. if she wants to take time to "go find herself" or whatever, then fine. go have it. i'm not gonna grovel or wait around for her to call. in fact, i will most likely move on, as will she. I'm also not going to assume this means our marriage is completely kaput--our paths may converge again down the road, but if they do, it will only have to be after she "levels off" and realizes what's at stake. it's entirely feasible that I could be happier in 6 months without her--but I'm sad that my kid will be affected by all this.

[baro-san]

It's symptomatic for our times to assume a victim position, to assume you know what others think and feel, to see your rights infringed, to think mostly about what you deserve while minimizing your responsibilities and faults.

[baro-san]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

...
Also, you need to remember that any woman you meet is likely to have suffered a fair amount of spiritual trauma from the relationship culture which demands women prostitute themselves for men, for free, in the hopes of maybe finding one who cares and will commit.
...

What an exaggeration ... ! And this isn't your only one.

[Ascophore]

Originally Posted by baro-san

What an exaggeration ... ! And this isn't your only one.

Don't poke at the inconsistencies and straw men, it hurts peoples feelings :3