Who has invented Who ?

[Joe Mc]

Interesting quandary visited my somewhat scattered mind Yesterday. It spoke of consciousness or the absolute being primary and human corporeal life
emerging from this. This must seem quite obvious to most people but the reason why the scenario of consciousness having primacy is because alot,
I won't say most, people live their lives as if 'they' are the progenitors of consciousness, it is their bodies and brains that have given rise
to the phenomenon called consciousness. By extension science then procedes to establish that consciousness is a brain function which ends with death of the human body.
But in general even outside of science isn't it the case that alot of human beings live as if the absolute is a thing they have invented
to take or to leave in the living of their daily lives ? Thanks.

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[AngelBlue]

Hi Joe...
Firstly , don't bamboozle me with science for I am only a simple child ( as you probably all guessed !!!!)....
But I think I get your gist !
So if I'm on the right track here is my answer.

Man is deluded if he thinks he invented the brain and conscious thought .
In fact , it's a miracle that man even has a brain, never mind a thought process.
It all comes from "source" . The energy that is our spirit .
The brain was only put there as a make believe that we need it, but in real life it's a bit like the appendix in as much as we don't actually know why it's there ....
Ok.. maybe not quite that bad.
But think about it.
If we didn't have our soul/ spirit the brain would be redundant.
( Sorry if I've bamboozled your brain.. didn't mean to ...)

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by AngelBlue

Hi Joe...
Firstly , don't bamboozle me with science for I am only a simple child ( as you probably all guessed !!!!)....But I think I get your gist !
So if I'm on the right track here is my answer.

Hey AB, nice to see you, hope that philosophical type qaundary didn't give
anyone a pain in the brain !! lol .. My Brain is not too bad, when it works !!!
which is not all of the time lol. My old man always comes out with the Why
argument, he loves that one, Why are we here lol. It's a brain teaser that
one !!!

Anyway a very simple example of Science being challenged by anything other
than Brain Chemistry is the NDE, folks having left their bodies and wandering around in Astral form above roofs and window ledges in hospitals
reporting back very detailed stuff that they could not have known. There is obviously something else going on.

Amazing that you can live your whole life in a certain way and that's fine. hmmm maybe i will be able finish that sentence soon,
Remember the Wizard of Oz and the scarecrow looking for a brain. !!! No its not me !

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[AngelBlue]

Haha Joe .... Oh NOW I get it ( I think).
Bet you're glad I'm not Irish making a show of myself !!!!
Your Dad sounds ace.
The only way I can resonate is through astral travel . Is that the same ?
Not to worry if I'm still on wrong wavelength .
I'll creep away !!!! LOL.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

isn't it the case that alot of human beings live as if the absolute is a thing they have invented
to take or to leave in the living of their daily lives ?

It does not really matter as long as some really beneficial invention keeps coming .

Further brain as progenitor of consciousness is a wrong claim considering followings.
1. We can not create such multi-purpose/multi-faceted /multi-tasking/pro-creating consciousness ourselves yet.
2. We can not even tell basic things like exact moment when/how we sleep or wake up.
3. We can even create food consuming robo which take energy from food and then throwback residue .

So if at all i have to answer this question then my answer would Consciousness inventing man and his brain.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I won't say most, people live their lives as if 'they' are the progenitors of consciousness, it is their bodies and brains that have given rise
to the phenomenon called consciousness. By extension science then procedes to establish that consciousness is a brain function which ends with death of the human body.

Have you listened to any of the YouTube videos featuring Dr. Bruce Greyson, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia. He presents some very impressive "medical science" information supporting his position that consciousness operates independently of the brain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aWM95RuMqU&t=49s

The position of the scientific/medical community is shifting AWAY from consciousness being a brain function which ends with death of the human body.

For quick reference, here is Dr. Greyson's background as per wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Greyson

[Gem]

I just say if you stick a needle in the brain, you become unconscious. In that sense consciousness emerges from matter with the function of the senses. However, we don't know what matter is exactly, and it's really weird stuff, so to say consciousness is emergent only raises the question, What is matter? It's not an answer.

I'm a panpsychist (believes the fundamental stuff is some sort of 'intelligence') but it's more probable that 'intelligence' is unconscious. Like a rock is unconscious, but the fundamental stuff is 'alive'. When life emerges from matter, sensory perception contacts the fundamental stuff and that's when consciousness emerges.

But I'm not an individualist. Consciousness isn't emergent from individual brains. In a scientific imagining, it's a waveform that extends across the universe and it might amalgamate into sensory perception here or there. At the same time, if life forms were to die off, the intelligence would still exist, but be unconscious.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Have you listened to any of the YouTube videos featuring Dr. Bruce Greyson, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia. He presents some very impressive "medical science" information supporting his position that consciousness operates independently of the brain.

Thank you Still Waters for those links, and thank you for the time, it's
exactly the type of stuff I need to watch right now regarding the subject.
I trust you are keeping well. Regards Joe.

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[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

It does not really matter as long as some really beneficial invention keeps coming .
1. We can not create such multi-purpose/multi-faceted /multi-tasking/pro-creating consciousness ourselves yet.
2. We can not even tell basic things like exact moment when/how we sleep or wake up.
3. We can even create food consuming robo which take energy from food and then throwback residue .

Thank you Hitesh, very interesting points which I agree with.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm a panpsychist (believes the fundamental stuff is some sort of 'intelligence') but it's more probable that 'intelligence' is unconscious. Like a rock is unconscious, but the fundamental stuff is 'alive'. When life emerges from matter, sensory perception contacts the fundamental stuff and that's when consciousness emerges.

I find your post very interesting Gem, apologies of course for having to shorten it, alot to ponder in there. I would just say if you look at somewhere like Chernobyl
and it's hurried abandonment after the Nuclear Meltdown,it seems that consciousness as you describe it with sensory extension did a great job in thriving without humans, Wolves
living on empty apartment balconies, Trees growing up through abandoned fair rides ?
Am I right to say you see consciousness expressing itself in an apexical order with man at the Summit and all other life forms contingent upon man's emergence
in a kind of consciousness chain of life if you like ? Regards. Joe.

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