Astra projection is essentially just visualization

[wstein]

to everyone: this is an inquiry, not an attempt to prove who is right or wrong, please keep that in mind when answering.

Aimed at the original poster but for all to answer:

Well Astra projection is essentially just visualization.

This quote is from another thread. Its an interesting idea which leads me to a question: Why stop at AP, might all experience might be 'just visualization'?

Note: Note that in the context of the original thread, 'visualization' was in reference to the only sense mentioned, take the question as to include all senses not just vision.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

This question is going to take a bit of an explanation to address, I'm afraid. To start, we need to ask how we can even be sure that a world outside of our mind exists. I assume this is what you mean by everything being a "visualization", that we just make it up as we go. Honestly, there's no fully perfect answer to the question. The best answer I have found is that this "reality" we experience naturally feels real to us, what happens in it seems to affect it, so even if it is completely imagined we may as well treat it as real.

In this sense, we are able to have a separation between objective and subjective universes, realities, however you want to see it. In the objective universe the earth orbits the sun. In my subjective universe, purple is the best color.

Once we get here we come up with all this symbolism, language, general tools used to communicate about, study, and understand the objective world, the one we all share. This is where the separation between visualization and reality come in within the context of astral travel. You are in a state of mind we define as "awake", we go into our imaginations, we "astral travel" from there. It is only taking place in our minds, which is why arguing about the exact symbolism people use is often pointless.

I don't even think my statement warrants asking the question you brought up, to be honest. It's an interesting topic, though.

Love is the law, love under will.

[desert rat]

Do what thou wilt , if any one hear does not know is from Alister Crowley . One theory is that we are just energy on the outer part of a black hole . All of our reality is just what we visualize .

[astralsuzy]

You can ap from visualising or imagining something. I have done it many times.

Originally Posted by desert rat

Do what thou wilt , if any one hear does not know is from Alister Crowley . One theory is that we are just energy on the outer part of a black hole . All of our reality is just what we visualize .

93,

Why is the first part relevant?

Also, I don't think you understand what visualization is. The very term requires us to have a value of comparison called "reality"

[skygazer]

Astral Projection is not just visualization - not even close.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Hadit

This question is going to take a bit of an explanation to address, I'm afraid.

Which is why I started a new thread.

Originally Posted by Hadit

To start, we need to ask how we can even be sure that a world outside of our mind exists. I assume this is what you mean by everything being a "visualization", that we just make it up as we go.

That is what I meant.

Originally Posted by Hadit

The best answer I have found is that this "reality" we experience naturally feels real to us, what happens in it seems to affect it, so even if it is completely imagined we may as well treat it as real.

To me being 'awake', having visions, OBE, and dreaming feel very different. The quality of experience is very different, the kinds of things that are easy and hard are different, the way one can interact with fellow 'travelers' is different, the properties of the environment are very different (continuity, substance, coherence, consistency, can be returned to, seem to be affected by will, etc). From a practical and functional viewpoint I find them useful for very different things.

Visualization would seem to be happening in all experiential based activities (not just those usually done while sleeping). Imagination would seem to be similar in scope.

Originally Posted by Hadit

I don't even think my statement warrants asking the question you brought up, to be honest. It's an interesting topic, though.

You seem to have grouped OBE with imagination but not with waking reality for some reason. I am aware that its not a clear case whether being awake is fundamentally different than dreaming.

I have tried them out on a spectrum based solely on the number of participants. Dreaming is least consistent and has the fewest number of participants, being awake has high continuity and consistency and seems to have lots of participants, OBE is in the middle on all these parameters.

Based on my experience, I see no basis for distinguishing OBE from waking life but not dreaming.

93,

Imagination is a part of all our life, waking life inuded.

[desert rat]

Originally Posted by Hadit

93,

Why is the first part relevant?

Also, I don't think you understand what visualization is. The very term requires us to have a value of comparison called "reality"

Do what thou wilt is from Crowley , on the secound part I may of mis interepted your post . I do know what visualization is .

Originally Posted by desert rat

Do what thou wilt is from Crowley , on the secound part I may of mis interepted your post . I do know what visualization is .

Why does it matter it's from Crowley?