A nice discussion about planes and dimensions :)

[Kontufuto]

Originally Posted by Summerlander

Erm... no it doesn't. Multiple universes is only a theory in the quantum zoo of theories. Much work has been done already since this notion and really, there is nothing but a wavefunction network at play in a probabilistic framework. What could have happened, didn't, because it was annihilated by something that staked higher in the probable cause.

It's like peaks and troughs (where additions and cancellations happen) full of integer and half-integer spin electrons stacked up in atomic ladders. Then you get the Pauli Exclusion principle that prevents us from falling through the floor. You also get clear arrangements in atomic structures which have been clearly understood and hence the reason why we created and understand transistors. Arrangements also determine materials that either insulate or conduct energy and there is a good reason for this.

By the way, there are other theories which are just as valid (and some more grounded in common sense) than the 11 dimensions malarkey. The latter is only a suggestion born from the language of mathematics... nothing else.

On life...

The universe happened the way it did by chance. No need for a creator. The chances of life emerging might have been an improbability but not an impossibility. It is remarkable that it happened the way it did but this is in no way a reason to believe in God or a deity. It still staked in possibility, in which case, the universe as it is may be all one big coincidence.

We must also get one thing clear here: scientists do not seek to have an explanation without the supernatural. This is an assumption. More like there is not enough evidence for the supernatural (let's face it, most of it - if not all - is anecdotal) and if a theory is not viable or evident in anyway, after so long of many claiming its authenticity, than it is a dead end. Thankfully enough, the best scientific minds learned to move away from silly superstitions, hearsay, exaggerations for the sake of sensationalism, and fairy tales.

The fallacy with your argument is that you assume that multiple dimensions does not exist because you do not have any evidence to support it or not support it! There is an abundance of evidence to argue that multiple dimensions DO exist however from your syllogism you make it sounds like it is all a mental psychosis and that would seem a convenient way to wrap it all up!

If you want solid evidence and scientific proof look no further than the concepts of "magnetic information waves' on the internet and study this for a bit. It has been researched scientifically for over 50 years and has been proven that our physical world that we are all in IS NOT the only one! And lets not forget the scientific genius Dr. Michio Kaku which you have conveniently occluded from your analysis (and your other threads that spirituality is all in the mind, etc.). Read his book on Parallel Universes and based on solid analysis you can't just sweep the concept under the rug with such audacity.

Stringing statements without any reference to the contrary in a Spiritual Forum that negates multiple universes and its varied levels of existence and thousands of years of empirical evidence is not only harmful but not helpful at all. Alienating other Members is not the way to impress me or anyone else. Others have chimed in with your pompous attitude and disaffection of doubt and uncertainty in the guise of Mr. Factual when in fact you have provided nothing for the audience here or elsewhere.

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by Summerlander

On life...

The universe happened the way it did by chance. No need for a creator. The chances of life emerging might have been an improbability but not an impossibility. It is remarkable that it happened the way it did but this is in no way a reason to believe in God or a deity. It still staked in possibility, in which case, the universe as it is may be all one big coincidence.

You are so wrong my friend. The Homosapien DNA strand is unlike any strand of DNA on the Earth. Our last strand of DNA is forged together and there is nothing in nature similar to this. One of the pioneers of DNA Francis Crick said that for our DNA to have forged the last strand together in the amount of time we were supposed to have "evolved" it would be more likely a tornado passes through a small town in the middle of no where and in the debris it churns up it builds a 747 jet airplane. So yea in other words one of the pioneers of DNA an actual scientist not a forum trolling self-proclaimed scientist is saying that it is impossible our DNA evolved in the time-frame Darwinists say it happened.

You guys are getting stuff from unreliable sources of information. The existence of parallel universes is a hypothetical one but the truth is that things can still work the way they do without them.

It's like me saying that black holes are gateways to a land of unicorns and not providing one shred of evidence. What you provide is pure conjecture and have just merely shown that some theoretical physicists (like Kaku, a dreamer of futuristic science) like to fantasise.

Come on guys, is the best argument you can present one where all you can throw at me is the word "troll" because you refuse to consider other possibilities that are not to your liking?

I can seriously recommend you some sources of reliable information based on legitimate study and research if you want. The trouble is, judging by your attitude, I'm not sure you guys would even consider it.

I'll leave you here with a quote instead:
"No, our science is no illusion. But an illusion it would be to suppose that what science cannot give us we can get elsewhere." - Sigmund Freud

I've come in a bit late on this one, but trying to explain dimensions and all that from my own perspective is a challenge I cant resist.

I am curious about these planes, and dimensions, what are they exactly?

Are there only 2 planes --- this here, and the astral plane?

From what little I've experienced I've come to see dimensions and planes as layers of reality that have an altered ratio of particles (protons/nutrons) to metaphysical energy (compared to here) as well as differentiated laws of nature (and most often time is percieved to be altered in such places.)

I don't subscribe any number to however many dimensions and planes there might be or their location because I dont feel that dimensions themselves have any mass or shape. Dimensions and planes are all layered amongst eachother and they blended with or separated from one another to varying degrees and also some layers intersect with one another too. Dimensions are also constantly changing as the contents of them change, sometimes events can lead some dimensions to collapse entierly, or new ones to split off after two dimensions 'collide' or blend together. One thing is for sure though, all dimensions and planes are part of a whole and that "whole" or multiverse is always growing and expanding and coming back together.

What's in the astral plane? Spirits of our dearly beloved? How about nature's entities, are they in a different plane or is it the same one? What about angels? Or demons? Ascended masters?

Theres a lot of lables there and if I was going to give you a clear cut answer you'd need to define everything separately, especially the astral plane and demons and angels...because we may well not be thinking of the same thing, but anyways.

If any of those things are able to exist beyond this physical reality, then the answer in general would be mostly yes.

As for which plane or dimension everything exists in, well its usually not one clear cut answer either. Most sentient individuals exist within many layers of reality at once, even this physical reality overlaps and blends with other realities (sometimes more than not) so in essence where an individual exists at any one moment is unique to that individual.

I know spirits who have been called angels and demons and departed friends who have been called ascended masters and beings who are as much a part of a physical element of this world than they are of other 'worlds' or dimensions (elementals)...but in the end thats all labeling, the ascended master could be your average jo, the angel a demon and vice versa and the elementals might just be trees with delusions, heh.

I can never be too sure with lables unless I use them for what I experience, they tend not to be very convenient regarding this kind of subject.

Are they just like us, waiting to be ONE with the source again?

As far as I can see multiculturalism tends not to end beyond the flesh, so chances are only some would be like 'us' (whoever 'we' are supposed to be like. lol.)

How about our dreams? What happens when we dream? Do our souls travel too? Where? How come sometimes dreams don't feel like travelling, they're usually stuff in our current life that is either funny or just doesn't make sense?

Hmm...I see a number of possibilities when people dream, I suppose I'll just list them.

- Some dream in their own minds and its their subconscious minds way of sorting out their daily life. It's likely the most well known form of dreaming and usually the only one people will accept as existing.

- Some peoples consciousness moves outside their own mind and mingles with another persons dreaming mind (and sometimes even their waking mind.) This form of dreaming is technically dreaming 'with' other individuals, in their heads and dreams rather than your own. Pretty simple concept I think. Bit like making a mental housecall, almost telepathic.

- Then we get more complicated, this is when a persons mind goes outside their own brain, but doesn't connect with another persons mind. Instead they go to layers of existence (or dimensions or planes) that are mostly mind based. This conglomeration of places are what I aptly call the Dream world or the Dreamscape.

The Dream World isnt what I consider to be the Astral dimension (many think otherwise,) since it's not inherantly real in the energetic or physical sense (whereas astral is.)
I mean, most people who 'die' or get 'hurt' in the dream world wake up and go about their daily lives none the wiser..its not a litteral reality, its more a mental representation of everyones interal mind-based realities.
In a weird way it's a bit like a metaphysical version of the internet, its a hub for exploring and connecting with other 'like minds' and toying with theories and concepts in a personal and often safe way.

Beyond dreaming is where or how I find OBE's and astral projection happens, or as I like to call it, taking your soul and energy for a walk either here or "there" rather than just taking your mind for walkies in a mind based world.

When we NDE go to the Astral Plane too?

How come when people AP they tend to go to places that are here on earth too like someone else's house? Does that mean they are not in the astral plane but things just look different?

I tend to label things depending on how far a person has moved from their physical body.

If you stay in this specific physical world, but are not inside your body then (by my definition, regardless of how the world is percieved) its an Out of Body Experience (OBE.)

However if you move through this physical dimension to the next (and maybe the next and the next) then you may end up totally skipping the dream world and landing yourself in the world of spirits (the Astral plane.)

And then there's theory I read about time that says the present and future are all NOW, and that it's just diff dimensions, and that we humans can jump from the present dimension to a future dimension of our choice (all which exist simultaneously).......... Is that another plane altogether?

Well, as far as I can tell time seems to move differently from place to place, but most places have altered laws of nature to go with the altered time, hence why people tend not to physically vanish into thin air to go visit other dimensions because they can't physically exist there exactly as they do here.

I personally see time as change and I think change can be reversed or sped up, but whenever I try toying with time I can't interact with anything around me, only look at the possibilities (which insinuates to me that time is all mentally based, just another concept to explain the relationships of one thing changing another in a specific linear order.)

I've heard of other people altering a past event and such, but the concept of warping time itself in other dimensions that are somehow parrallel to eachother and then somehow become one particular future version of a specific dimension (even though they seem to be separate before) is way over my head.

Did I miss anything?

Am I just thinking too much?

So... so... many questions...

Yes, yes and yes. lol.

Owww I gots a headache

Hmmm the answers on this thread are good!! Really good!! I am still working on experiencing this Astral Travel too so I can find out.

So I guess the "how many" question I asked, kind of doesn't make sense, especially if we assume that there is no such thing as "here and there", ie, these realms can't really be located nor quantified, because well... Space and time, they are relative---- um--- unreal--- errr... I don't know how to say what I'm thinking.

I guess the reason why some Religions have put a number to it is because the founder(s) have experienced that particular number, ie if I astral travel for years and manage to experience no more than four dimensions then I'll say there's 4.

Another thing I've been meaning to ask---------

When we "leave" our body... Does that mean the soul is indeed "INSIDE" the body--- it can be located, and counted (or maybe even measured??)?......
And if it does leave... Then our bodies are left soulless-------- well I know this came from a film, but isn't that, umm, dangerous?.......

What about sleepwalkers?... >.< Sorry, so many questions!!!

Risking sounding like a devotee......

I can't recommend Jurgen's videos too highly... for a coherent overview of pastlife, between life and present life.
(Just ordered his book)


http://www.multidimensionalman.com/M...ter_death.html

He has a way of expressing the connection of afterlife-betweenlife realities and present life that makes soo much sense.... and discusses the transition in a way that few others have.

With clear personal lucid OOB observations rather than theory.... And discusses the levels of the "afterlife-between life" in a manner very easy to grasp.

Also by interviewing residents of varied levels he's done a priceless service to our understanding... mine at least....

Referring to earthlife as illusion always seemed difficult to fully visualize.
But from his perspective, and those he's interview it begins to finally seem clear...

And what sages have claimed for eons begins to make some sense, in a way I can grasp.




If there were a Nobel prize for contributions to our understanding of life-consciousness , he would certainly deserve consideration.

He makes a great case, that our beliefs and current moral-emotional state determines what we experience-(create) after death of the physical body.. In a way I'd not heard before.
We DO get assistance, yet what we experience and "where" we go (planes) is really up to us, and our current state of awareness.

The most clear, yet mind opening stuff I'd come across in decades, in term of understanding the scope of life we may encounter between earth lives.
Providing an overall perspective... on the matter of planes-dimensions.. that we may eventually encounter. Through OOB experience or after death.

No doubt there are similar books, like Robert Monroe's .... but this was quite a find

Henri77:
Might try downloading-saving from Vimeo, I just tried it and it works great. With a fast connection,...

I can't recommend Jurgen's videos too highly... for a coherent overview of pastlife, between life and present life.
(Just ordered his book)

I also recommend Jurgen's videos.
You're right. There's a lot more with the Vimeo version. Continuous and more connected.
Just needed a little bit better Wi-Fi connection. 2 bars public signal worked ok. As long as i was watching it anyway, i downloaded it with Real Player (good for clipping images). Then how to get the book?... I decided to get the nook app for PC installed at Barnes and Noble and order it from them. This is the most difficulty i've ever had in purchasing anything on-line. Currently waiting for an email answer from Barns and Noble as to why it keeps asking me for a phone number when i keep giving it to them.

I like what he says about awareness, particularly in conjunction with lucid dreaming. Merely realizing you are dreaming is still only dreaming. So many peoples descriptions of projection appear overladen with dreaming mind, i don't see how they could tell what was what. I'm definitely going to redo, start over, my dream experimentation before trying to leap into astral projection. Since i decided to try this months ago my life has turned into a 3 ring circus. Now i think the time i wound up reduced to researching hasn't been wasted.

[Xanth]

I'm good friends with Jurgen. He's a fine fellow and an awesome projector. He's got many MANY years under his belt. :)

The videos he releases are top notch full of great information... information based upon direct, first hand knowledge.