Creeds vs. Spirituality

[Amilius777]

I am not bothering with an opening. I will just begin. It has to do with Jesus's life and what the Creeds really mean.

SORRY for the long thread. Read and just try to digest.

I consider myself a Catholic but I have my own belief structure.

The Virgin Birth of Jesus:

The Synoptic Gospels have only two virgin birth stories. Both are totally different. One describing Joseph's reaction, the second is Mary's reaction. Joseph pertains to the community of men, Mary in Luke was for the women in the Church. John and Thomas' Gospel have no weird births. The Word simply became enfleshed mysteriously in Jesus.

The virgin Birth means that the purity of Mary, her childlike openness attracted the spirit of Jesus. It just means that Israel's history has been redeemed in a pure mother, whereas it's past was riddled in impurity.

"The Holy Spirit" overshadowed her. The divine (Holy Spirit) in Mary attracted the spirit of Jesus. His spirit incarnated in her like all spirits incarnate. Mary and Joseph copulated and gave birth to the physical body of this advanced entity which they named Jesus. The Gabriel story? It means that Mary was a strong medium who communicated with angels and guides. Gabriel was her Guardian angel who carried the soul of Jesus into her womb.

Bethlehem Symbolism:

Jesus wasn't born in Bethlehem. Jesus was most likely born in Nazareth. The purpose that Matthew and Luke writing his birth in Bethlehem was to connect Jesus to David. Which is fine and Jesus was most likely a descendant of David. But this was overkill but these beliefs were needed to convince the people that Jesus was their savior. Jesus was born in the Nazarene villages, most likely among the northern Essenes.

Star?

There was no astrological alignment that scientists have come up with. There was no star possible for a bunch of astrologers to follow that would highlight a child's birthplace. Such an event would have been recorded by the entire planet. The Star of Bethlehem is the "third eye". It is the spiritual doorway. It is likely that astrologers from the East traveled through their own perceptions and wanted to meet a great master who had been born in the Mediterranean.

The Word became Flesh?

It is a poem from the end of the first Century around 90 A.D. It means that God's Message or interconnected divine information was being channeled through Jesus. Jesus was a pure conduit of God's word or "message". Jesus didn't allow his personal feelings or ego get in the way, he opened himself up like a child and allowed that divine energy to flow through him to his disciples. It was for them to receive, not for him. That is why they called him God's mediator. He was the medium through which the higher power's revelations came through. Many mediums and spiritualists can channel messages, spirits, and angels, Jesus was advanced to channel the Divine itself.

Missing Years of Jesus?

Nothing is missing. The opening and birth is an overture and narrative because nobody knew the real story. The closest story is that Mary got knocked up by Joseph before their marriage date. Jews were strict with codes and dates. Joseph didn't want to marry her, but his dreams convinced him and all would be fine. Joseph and Mary married while she was already pregnant with his biological son. Mary had the ability to speak with angels, that is how she knew her son was a special son.

Jesus' missing years were really him growing up like every other person. Yeah sure he had gifts and genius abilities but in time they developed. He ended up mastering all the psychic gifts by 30.

The main story is that Jesus was twelve talking about God in the temple. But the parents can't understand why Jesus is calling himself "son of God? but earlier Mary is told by an angel in Luke's that he is God's son? What the hell is going on? Well Jesus didn't go around ever calling himself such a thing. And his personal connection to a higher power probably started at a young age and called the Divine by the word "Father". A very personal term because he had a strong connection. Understandable. The temple story? He may have been a "known it all- wiseacre" in his teens. Hey, even an advanced teacher has an ego to overcome!

Jesus most likely learned buddhism either from traveling or from his own background. The Essenes were filled with Buddhist influences. I feel like Jesus' spirit-guide was in fact the Buddha.

Jesus didn't marry because he was a peasant tekton. Lowest class couldn't afford dirt. He didn't flaunt sexually because he was a very orthodox man. He most likely abstained from sex like many Essenes to keep in line with the law. Did he have sexual feelings? Most likely, he was a man. Jesus most likely helped his mother Mary raise his younger brothers and sisters when Joseph (a just father) passed on.

Jesus' Baptism:

Jesus followed John the baptist and his movement and believed in his ministry. John was creating a "messianic movement" or "christ movement". John didn't feel like he was pure or spiritualized enough to be the Christ for the movement. Jesus surpassed John (elijah reincarnated), and at his baptism he was christened, given the vocation of Christ. Jesus felt that he was the only person who could become the Christ for his people. And another thing is that Jesus is so equated with God because the Father/Mother or Divine whatever is the impersonal Source. Jesus decided to be the personification of that Source to help his people understand her/his nature and wishes for human life.

Jesus tempted by the Devil:

Even though Jesus had an opened childlike nature, old wisdom, he had to finally face his demons before he began his Christ-vocation. You could say Christ represents "the divine awareness", it represents the true self. It says he took 40 days. Whatever. Today we say, - it took me a month! To mean a long period of time. The dark-side is a strong force in the spiritual realms and within us. Our egos are so subtle and cunning (the serpent was the most cunning of all the beasts). Sometimes the universe pushes us into negative situations to truly face our faults and sometimes we truly realize who we are when we leave the world and go out into the Wild, into the wilderness, into Nature to become an integral part of the whole.


Jesus' miracles and healings:

Exorcisms in my experience are real. I do believe Jesus cast out extremely negative entities from people's homes, lives, minds, etc. He was "cleaning up" is homeland from influences from the dark energy. I also believe Jesus truly did tend the sick, heal the diseased, and mended the wounded, and resuscitated the dead all with his faith in the Source. His disciples were not only his students but his best friends including other disciples he healed like Magdalene and the other Marys. When his disciples tried healings and failed he reprimanded them. Jesus' Ministry and healings are in MY opinion the most factual part of his life. This is where the Master Teacher came out, the great healer and exorcist worked his magic.

His entire teachings were about "the Kingdom of God", an inner state of childlike openness and faith. Kingdom of God was his ancient term for "the Christ consciousness". it is an awareness where everyone comes together, shares together, eats together, and prays together in God. He demonstrated this consciousness in table-fellowship, the Eucharist, healings, and forgiveness. These are the foundations of Christ's revitalized ancient spirituality: forgiveness, healing, table fellowship and Eucharist. Very few churches, Roman and Orthodox still retain the ancient rituals and sacraments.

Eucharist: Body and Blood?

Jesus wanted everyone to eat of his body and blood? It was believed in the ancient world that eating and consuming someone's blood was sexual in nature. Jesus uses such sexual language to make his disciples understand his teaching. He is teaching them to become one body, one blood. The ancient world was obsessed with blood lines, genetic connections etc to be of "the honor class", and those of looked down upon blood lines were "shame class". Jesus destroyed honor and shame thinking which also exists today. Instead he wanted to make everybody one body, one blood, one spirit in the Christ-consciousness, "the kingdom".

The Crucifixion-take away the sins of the world?

Jesus was a tried criminal because he rebelled against the establishment creating a new social and individual consciousness. The Roman Empire and corrupt priests hated this. They decided to kill him under sedition. His closest friends betrayed him and abandoned him, but he forgave their bad karma. His executioners passed his sentence for death, but he forgave their bad karma. His murderers tortured him but he forgave their bad karma. The cycle of karma ended and Jesus gave a new example for the world, he immortalized his teachings on the Cross. Sometimes you have to actually DO something and stop talking about it.

Death-resurrection:

Jesus' body was destroyed by crucifixion. It is said that his body was laid in a tomb. There is strong faith among the early communities that Jesus was given a tomb. I don't envision Jesus eaten by wolves on the cross. He really was buried. Death is the final rite of passage for the individual spirit. And resurrection was Jesus' spirit going to a higher plane. With all his advancement and love he gave on the cross, I truly believe the Source allowed Jesus to physically manifest to his friends and disciples. This wasn't a real body, but a manifestation for their sake and his own to interact with them. But Jesus eventually gave up the privileged visions to his friends. The spirit of Jesus fulfilled his vocation as the Christ and a new movement, way, social consciousness, and spirituality was founded through the Apostles and Paul.

Jesus went back to the Divine where many guides and master teachers have come and gone. And he didn't leave the movement orphaned. Because the Christ-consciousness was awakened in his friends and followers, the Holy Spirit would guide them. Basically the Holy Spirit is simply Divine connection within us. The Divine connection is located in our 7th chakra, the white light. That is why it said, "Tongues of fire came down over the heads of the Apostles". They became divinely connected to the Divine and to the ascended Jesus. Here the early movement formulated a "trinitarian relationship" to understand the Divine. Father-Son-Holy Spirit. This example was in Jesus (son), divine connection (holy spirit), the Divine herself/himself (Father). And this model was to be followed after by all the followers. The Trinity is our own personal relationship with God. Our own divine nature, the divine connection, and the divine itself.

After his life was documented to the best of the Gospel's abilities, they began giving him titles like Son of God, God, word, etc. The thing is that people and religion have missed the point. The Gospels are narratives how Jesus is the son of God, whereas Caesar is not the son of God. It was a political and spiritual war over who is right. Who had right-consciousness. It is not literal. It is a narrative device to help the world understand that Jesus' way is the real way to be human, not Caesar and Empire's way.

[Visitor]

Hello Amilius77.

I read your interesting thread. It has reminded me, or questioned me (again), as to what is important for me. What does all this comparison and differences prove to me.

In my opinion, regardless of the stories, it is my accumulated personal experiences that becomes important.
It is putting my faith in God, for various aspects of my life, that keeps me loyal to my Relentless Lover.

Throughout my life, I am constantly reminded by God that their are no coincidences, that I am loved, cared for, guided, educated, inspired, blessed, empowered, and supported when I am down.
In other words, on a personal level, there is only God and me.

No story, or version of a story, or religion can alter my experiences.
Many people and religions have suggested otherwise. I have listened, pondered, and at the end, always returning back to my personal experiences with God.

It always boils down to: I love God and Truth. From this springs unconditional love and faith. This is everything.
Nothing else is important, and I would trade everything else I have, and am, to remain with my loving connection with God.
It is pointless to wonder off, because anywhere else is putting my back to the One that loves me.

A most enlightened post, Amilius777 if I may say.


...

[Simon_Templar]

Interesting thread. I often read things like "getting the lepers back to life" meant as much a tax-collector as an apostle as literally doing just that.




Also recently I have been thinking about the whole Son of God thing which could mean that he was a child of the oncoming battle between a new Hell and Heaven - the Pits which had been opening for about only 500 years. He was the child of a very real understanding of what was happening supernaturally, Hades was now gone.
Because of some work in the Dark arts I have come to the conclusion that the Abyss opened up to Jesus cosmically with the falling unconscious of Zebedee and his sons at the gates to Gethsemane. Partially I believe this because I have fallen unconscious in the middle of my day with the horrors of a mindless and endless black void. Since then I have lived in the Abyss and even visited the pits and beyond. Even before this I believe we live in Jesus' three days before he comes back to life. Sorry I digressed, but I too consider that if we think about why we put things a certain way in the modern era then so too the older guys said things cause they were cool, or somehow couth, or I suppose - Holy.

[Amilius777]

Well Simon, we do create our own heaven and own hell in this life and the next.

There is a saying, "Inner communion after death is good for the good and bad for the bad."

"God opens paradise to the good and bad. It is good for the good, bad for the bad."

Ummm. I don't know how to fully relate to your response but the thing about Son of God was a narrative device to convince the Medittereanean world that in Jesus you will find the answers to your problems not in the Caesars.

Before the birth of Jesus, Caesar Augustus had it imprinted on every single city with a template that read- "CAESAR AUGUSTUS, LORD of LORDS, SON OF GOD, Bringer of PEACE

The belief among the Roman world in the Medittereanean was that Augustus was conceived from a virgin mother by Zeus himself. They called him Son of God, not just son of the gods, but Son of God to give him an absolute title and for all his descendants.

Jesus is no more the son of God than you or I are the son of God.

That is the thing that Jesus was trying to end. The ancient world was obsessed with deifying angels, gods, emperors, kings even great prophets like Moses and David. Jesus didn't rebuke any of this, in fact he came to tell those who were forgotten like the poor, the lower class, the downtrodden and sick that they TOO were the sons of God, they too were gods, they too HAVE the Divine nature within!

"Did I not say, ye are gods?" - Jesus.