The Spirit Of Christ and Christ Consciousness.

[Honza]

Are they different? Certainly according to most Christians they are not the same thing. One is apparently God's grace and the other is Self-Realisation.

One is recieved from the Creator while the other is one's own self.

I don't think they are the same thing either. It is really quite subversive to Christian doctrine and theology to say that they are the same thing. It is something that most Christians would deny quite vehemently.

The basic principle of understanding behind both of them is totally different.

[Amilius777]

Most Christians do not believe in the Christ Consciousness, thus they don't believe in themselves as Jesus taught them. The overall theology is that the Logos in John's Gospel is a pre-existence glowing dude with a human body who became Jesus and is God. The Logos is the disincarnate, universal, Christ-consciousness in the universe.

The Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit, the Mind of Christ or Christ Consciousness is the Son.

They say God bestows the Spirit of Christ unto a person when they are receptive to his grace and love. Once they receive the spirit they become awakened within and attune themselves to the Christ-Consciousness. They become a Son of God.

I am guessing the Spirit of Christ, or the Holy Ghost is like God's divine energy. No one knows where it comes from or where it goes. And the blessing of this energy is private and personal. I think the Holy Spirit is always with us as an ever-present vibration. But we have to work on ourselves as receptive channels. Once that happens through austerity, prayer, and devotion, and maybe more than one lifetime we connect to the Spirit. And then it charges us with the realization of our true self, the Christ. And then we become pure channels for God Himself like Jesus.

This is a bit much but it makes sense. I just don't know if everyone is on the same path to become vessels of Christ Consciousness.

People have thought in the past that Buddha, Enoch, Melchizedek, Krishna and other holy personages were all past incarnations of Jesus. But Jesus was the Man. It was the Christ-Consciousness who became manifested through each age for spiritual upliftment.

Saint Augustine's Theology of RCC states: "The Son in the Trinity can assume the human nature of as many human beings He desires, but he chose to incarnate as one man Jesus Christ."

It is unbelievable that this is part of Catholic Theology but it unheard of. The Son can become incarnate as others and not just as Jesus of Nazareth. This idea is in Paul when he says- "Adam was a type of Christ", "Melchizedek was a type of Christ", etc. And so this Consciousness has manifested before in the past in others. The only difference is that this Consciousness in the Soul of Jesus descended from a plane of Absolute Bliss (Heaven) and became an average mortal man to set the 'Example'. That is the ONLY essential difference between Jesus, us, and other prophets.

Technically there is no difference in essence, only in experience and outward form.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

People have thought in the past that Buddha, Enoch, Melchizedek, Krishna and other holy personages were all past incarnations of Jesus. But Jesus was the Man.

The only difference is that this Consciousness in the Soul of Jesus descended from a plane of Absolute Bliss (Heaven) and became an average mortal man to set the 'Example'. That is the ONLY essential difference between Jesus, us, and other prophets.

The only Man? Jesus -- if he even existed at all -- was simply one of many self-realized mystics. I'd say it's fairly obvious why the Christian Church would want people believe Jesus was somehow unique and exclusive, and different from spiritual leaders of other religions. Jesus' story isn't even new for goodness' sake; the messiah myth predates Christianity by dozens of centuries. Shortlist of other solar messiahs:

Horus - Egypt 3000 BC
Born Dec 25
Born of a virgin
Birth accompanied by a star in the east
Upon his birth, he was adored by 3 kings
Prodigal child teacher at the age of 12
Baptized at the age of 30 by Anup the Baptizer
Had 12 disciples
Performed miracles
Healed the sick and walked on water
Was known as The Truth, The Light, God's anointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God
Betrayed by Typhoon
Crucified
Upon his death was buried for 3 days, then resurrected

Attis - Greece 1800 BC
Born Dec 25
Crucified
Placed in a tomb
Upon his death was buried for 3 days, then resurrected

Mithra - Persia 1200 BC
Born Dec 25
Born of a virgin
Had 12 disciples
Performed miracles
Was known as The Truth, The Light
Upon his death was buried for 3 days, then resurrected

Krishna - India 900 BC
Born of a virgin
Birth accompanied by a star in the east
Performed miracles with his disciples
Was resurrected after death

Dionysus - Greece 500 BC
Born Dec 25
Born of a virgin
Travelling teacher who performed miracles
Turned water to wine
Was know as King of Kings, God's Only Begotten Son, The Alpha and Omega
Was resurrected after death

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Honza

Are they different? Certainly according to most Christians they are not the same thing. One is apparently God's grace and the other is Self-Realisation.

It is really quite subversive to Christian doctrine and theology to say that they are the same thing.

Subversive is good when it exposes religious doctrine and theology as malicious, controlling dogma. Being in "God's grace" and achieving self-realization are the very same. It's only the Church that would have people believe that focus on the development of the individual God-self is somehow wrong or bad.

[knightofalbion]

Christ consciousness = Love consciousness.

God is Love and Love is of God.

It doesn't matter what label you attach to 'yourself'. Love is everything.

Love manifests itself in many guises - Service, compassion, kindness, charity, forgiveness, mercy, gentleness, non-violence, tolerance ...

[Baile]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

http://holy-lance.blogspot.ca/

Nice comments knight. And great blog: your "THE RISE OF CHURCHIANITY" article pretty much says it all when it comes to addressing those questions Honza is asking regarding the relevency of certain Christian doctrine and the Church in general.

[Amilius777]

Baile- I am going to settle this once and for all on these Forums:

Majority of your comparisons are huge generalizations that began during the last 30 years.

You are confusing the Gospels with the Creed of the Roman Church. The Roman Church paganized the Gospels with their Creeds. Yes. But the Gospels in themselves are NOT Pagan writings.

I have heard them hundreds of times and so have others. They are out dated and even the most atheist scholars do not compare them. Neither do archaeologist unless they have a sincere aggravation towards Judeo-Christianity.

Krishna wasn't born of a virgin. He was the 8th son of Devaki and her husband. Krishna's miracles include slaying mythical dragons and raising mountains. Krishna wasn't crucified. He was shot by an arrow and he left earth by will.

Buddha was born out of his mother's side. Which means he came out of her without normal birth. This story was fabricated many centuries later when Buddhists began writing the life story of Siddhartha. He was still the son of the Monarch and that is why he became the prince. He had a choice to continue his father's lineage or become a Buddha. He chose the latter.

Horus was not born of a virgin. Isis resurrected her husband and through a golden phallus conceived Horus. He is also the God of War and Hunting. All the Pharaohs claimed to be Horus in human form. The movie Religulous (2008) and the book The Christ Conspiracy claim that Horus was born of a virgin though an ‘immaculate conception.’ Egyptian texts demonstrate that Horus’ mother was the goddess Isis, and not a human virgin. Horus was conceived when Isis resurrected the dismembered god Osiris and had intercourse with him, which precludes the idea of virginity, and certainly parthenogenesis. And btw Horus was not crucified. Why? because he lived in the Pharaohs.

Attis: A pomegranate (or almond) tree springs up, and much later, Nana happens by, picks some of the fruit, and puts it in her lap, and then it disappears -- upon which, she finds herself pregnant with Attis. This resulted from Zeus once again. The communion of Attis is unknown. It was not bread and wine. Attis' cult were made of eunuchs- yes. But that is because they castrated themselves. Pretty sick idea. Attis died under a tree. He wasn't crucified. He shed his blood to make flowers and violets. He went into the underworld. The "descent into hell" was added later by Pagan Rome- Yes I will give you that one!

Mithras:

Mithras is depicted as being born from a rock. He is shown as emerging from a rock, already in his youth, with a dagger in one hand and a torch in the other. Some sources say from a Virgin Mother Goddess but each one was developed and used or discarded over time. None of this is from a concrete book. Besides the Jews did not have access to pagan stories. They despised everything pagan and had no access to their customs. The Gospel Writers are very very very very Jewish. To say the opposite is what the Church has done which is Antisemitism. And Resurrection and miraculous deaths are not new to Judaism. Enoch and Elijah ascended into heaven. Moses asked to die for the sins of his people and didn't enter the promise Land, etc.

Dionysus:

He is the lord of wine-making, goat killer, of the black goat skin?, god of wine press. His father was Zeus, an Olympian god. Zeus had sex with Dionysus' mother. Zeus is the literal father of Dionysus thus he wasn't born of a virgin. Dionysus's death is murky and unknown. Some say he just went up to Olympus or never died among mortals. Either way the rebirth of Dionysus has something to do with him being twice born from his mother's womb and Zeus' body. These stories are very bizarre and filled with strange happenings.


-----
As you can see all the pagan forms of Christianity are seen later by the Roman Church. I have said this on every thread.

The virgin birth started off as a miraculous occurrence of Mary being "full of the Holy Ghost" and conceiving a child. Even though this is God's will of conception, the child is born of the very power which resides within everybody. It is a virgin birth because Mary didn't have sex but ironically the Gospels writers do NOT call it the "Virgin Birth" as a chapter. It is intended to show the Holy Spirit and it's power within individuals! The Holy Ghost in Mary (a woman with a reproductive system) prompted her to conceive by her own thought. Jesus is more conceived by Consciousness or Thought than by some Olympian bearded God in the Sky.

The birth of Jesus was obviously in the Spring since the writers promote the shepherds and shepherd boys.

The Star in the East is very important. A star doesn't shine in the day time. The Magi didn't see a literal star. Stars don't shine all day. Some believe the Star to be a spiritual event in the minds of the Magi. Ironically stars are represented in the East and in Judaism as symbols of Spirit. This may be the Star of the esoteric Christ-consciousness.

The twelve disciples were necessary to represent the twelve tribes of Israel which came before all those pagan stories. They were made the heads by Jesus.

The crucifixion is not a pagan belief either. Thousands of rebels were crucified in Jesus' time. He was seen as one of the rebels and they killed him by crucifixion. All false messiahs and rebels of zealot movements, etc were killed by crucifixion. Also several high priests wanted Jesus crucified because it signified "disgrace" and "curse". Anyone killed on a tree in their belief symbolized that they were cursed by God. It was a way of the High Priest asserting their religious control over the masses which Jesus was taking away from them. The "law" killed Jesus. Which means the upholders of Moses' law killed him and made him a curse. He reversed the curse and forgave his enemies. The crucifixion is an act of forgiveness and love to enemies not an act of dying Gods.

The Resurrection is horribly misunderstood. Jesus didn't resurrect in some metaphysical way. He literally re-enters his body and comes back as if nothing bad happened. This small trial on the cross was nothing but an illusion. That was the point. That suffering is not the point and destination, it is a passing thing like everything else to get towards glorification. The Resurrection is the fulfillment of Job- another Jewish story! Not pagan! Jesus like Job lost everything but regained everything hundred fold- friends, family, food, love, and physical life completely with restored bliss in God.

[Honza]

Exactly. There is a big difference between the Christian interpretation of Christ and the Hindu/New Age Christ Consciousness. They are just not the same thing. People here know that but they just seem to enjoy overlooking it.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

Baile- I am going to settle this once and for all on these Forums:

The crucifixion is not a pagan belief either. The "law" killed Jesus. Which means the upholders of Moses' law killed him and made him a curse. He reversed the curse and forgave his enemies. The crucifixion is an act of forgiveness and love to enemies not an act of dying Gods.

The Resurrection is horribly misunderstood. Jesus didn't resurrect in some metaphysical way. He literally re-enters his body and comes back as if nothing bad happened. The Resurrection is the fulfillment of Job- another Jewish story! Not pagan! Jesus like Job lost everything but regained everything hundred fold- friends, family, food, love, and physical life completely with restored bliss in God.

Amilius, I sincerely appreciate your openness to investigating esoteric understandings of the Christ Jesus mystery. That's more than I can say for many of the people who post in the Christianity section. As I said before, I studied occult, esoteric Christianity for 2-3 decades. In that time, my understanding of the story of Jesus and the mystery of Christ changed, and changed again. And it's evolved again, since. The one constant in all that which I've come to see is that WE CANNOT KNOW. We can only: 1. Choose a specific doctrine and particular set of beliefs, and hold on to that intrepretation as "the truth"; or 2. Open ourselves up to a myriad of possible explanations.

I am not saying Jesus was a pagan solar god. I am not saying he was the son of God. I'm am not saying he lived, or that he never lived. I am saying that neither you nor I nor anyone can know for sure. We can only discuss and surmise. I'm interested in an open dialogue; I'm not interested in anyone's righteous and hardened beliefs on the subject.

In other words Amilius, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to "settle this once and for all," and that's because you don't know either. The quoted comments of yours I posted above are nothing more than an example of your personal, subjective, chosen beliefs. They are neither true nor false. And I'm not saying that to be mean-spirited. I'm saying it because until you admit that, we can't have a honest dialogue on the subject.

[Amilius777]

What I meant by "settling once and for all" were the generalizations you posted. All those pagan deities have very little similarities to Jesus. You could probably compare all of them to every prophet of every religion in very general terms.

I am just tired of people overlooking or perhaps not reading for themselves. Majority of those claims are from very poor scholars who have been denounced for being ignorant. I used to believe all that was true until I began reading the myths of those Gods for myself.

Not a single one is similar to Jesus in any way. Not even the strange births. They are complete irrelevant. And I am not sticking up for Orthodox Christianity because I DO NOT believe in it. I believe in Jesus but I don't believe in Orthodox Christianity. But I will testify that the Four Gospels are not rehashed Pagan myths. This was a belief for sometime which sprang many books in the Gnostic and New Age sections. They are completely false historically and scholarly by both Christians and Atheists.

I don't know the truth about Jesus but what I do know is that the Pagan similarities you posted are all false.