When there is no balance to suffering...

[NoOne]

My own take is this:

You are an independent agent, in some ways you weave the web of your own fate. Suffering is the natural consequence of being alive, it happens to all living beings.

Yet, by being divinely attuned, you seem to "get lucky". Suffering is lessened and alleviated. You seem to be in the right place at the right time, most of the time. People who can help you come into your life at exactly the right time.

There is definitely some kind of divine providence at work here, though I would not necessarily associate that with the Biblical God. It seems to be more of a case of you yourself coming into your own power, making your higher self work for you, so you can manifest what you need in this world.

In other words, you are your own God. You have the power of one, if you know how to access and manifest it. Other deities can help you access your own power and reach your full potential, but by and large they aren't there to run errands for you and grant wishes. They expect you to develop yourself and act independently. Only by coming into your own power and acting as your own divine agent can you alleviate or completely remove suffering.

The huge amount of suffering you see in the world today is a result of living things being shut off from their divine powers and attributes. This makes them powerless and a victim of circumstances. Once they become their own sovereign agent with the power to shape the world, that suffering mostly stops. That is what spiritual development is all about.

[lomax]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

First of all, I have no use for your pity. So pwease *puppy eyes* keep it to yourself. And in the name of allfather Odin and the very foundations of Asgard itself, be a little bit more creative than bringing karma into it because I don't believe in karma. I'll say what quite a lot of you are eager to hear; I'm not a good person. But the fact is, there are people out there that make me look like the holy virgin Mary, yet they get away with everything they do. That's enough evidence for me that karma isn't real.

Now to get to the core: they say life is all about growing, learning life lessons, and to love yourself and as well others. That's even what a huge majority of NDEs talk about. But I really have certain issues with that. For one, yes I agree that suffering is necessary to a point so that you develop a better personality and be more kind and helpful to others. However, as everything should be perfectly balanced, so should the amount of suffering one soul is forced to undergo. When one's endless agony and suffering in life goes beyond the limit that is necessary, you'll become cold, emotionless, bitter, and apathetic. I know that because I'm one of those abominations. If there was something for me to learn from all this nonsense, well then I have either failed or simply learned the 'wrong' things. This is a good example of cause and effect. A disruption of balance and the severe concequences that it brings. Should there indeed be a higher force involved with our lives, then this thing many of you call God is evil beyond human comprehension. If there was a devil, even he'd be like: ''woah, chill out dude''. There truly is no word for this kind of unspeakable evil.

So now my simple question that I want to ask: what is the point of suffering if it goes beyond the necessary limits and brings the opposite results that God, angels, higher self, (or whatever floats your boat) was hoping for? Because I see it as totally pointless. I'm also aware that I contradict myself as a self-proclaimed atheist with this thread, but that doesn't stop me from asking this question to see what kind of logic spiritual people come up with. Because maybe, just maybe, there is a very tiny less than 1% chance that you'll prove me wrong. Unfortunately, one of my biggest curses in this life is that I never appear to be wrong. As fun as it sounds, it isn't. Trust me with that.

I feel exactly the same way.No reason to go into details,but suffering has become my second nature,and as you said,there's nothing to learn from it.
I agree with everything you wrote.

Form what i saw from lobsang rampa books,when someone reaches the last incarnations on this earth,he'll experience suffering at it's best.It happens almost for everyone.

If your overself decided for you to suffer,no angelic can help you.In fact they'll push you to face your fate even more.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by NoOne

My own take is this:

You are an independent agent, in some ways you weave the web of your own fate. Suffering is the natural consequence of being alive, it happens to all living beings.

Yet, by being divinely attuned, you seem to "get lucky". Suffering is lessened and alleviated. You seem to be in the right place at the right time, most of the time. People who can help you come into your life at exactly the right time.

There is definitely some kind of divine providence at work here, though I would not necessarily associate that with the Biblical God. It seems to be more of a case of you yourself coming into your own power, making your higher self work for you, so you can manifest what you need in this world.

In other words, you are your own God. You have the power of one, if you know how to access and manifest it. Other deities can help you access your own power and reach your full potential, but by and large they aren't there to run errands for you and grant wishes. They expect you to develop yourself and act independently. Only by coming into your own power and acting as your own divine agent can you alleviate or completely remove suffering.

The huge amount of suffering you see in the world today is a result of living things being shut off from their divine powers and attributes. This makes them powerless and a victim of circumstances. Once they become their own sovereign agent with the power to shape the world, that suffering mostly stops. That is what spiritual development is all about.

So much of THIS.

To the extent that if one could just allow themselves to be the victim of circumstance, they would not suffer!

Suffering occurs when we interject the ego into the equation, in the bid to control those circumstances that lead to our perceived victimisation.

It is all about anal retentiveness...then blaming God for our emotional constipation.

What you have just outlined, describes me to a tee...I am terrified of my own power, even though I am fully aware of the potential and subsequent outcomes...the fear is not based on how dark, evil etc that it is..but just how freaking overwhelming of "self" and "ego" that it is...so I let it through in small, manageable doses, but I also suffer many neurological problems because I hold it back..you know...you have seen it...felt my energy and understand, so you would have more of a "heads up" on this, more than anybody else.

I feel that what you have written was aimed at me..even though that may not have been the intent...and I am reminded of the quote by Marianne Williamson which is on the first page of my personal journal..

http://skdesigns.com/internet/articl..._deepest_fear/

Now this gets to the holes drilled in my Tupperware container.

[God-Like]

There are so many levels and layers to suffering/s and for why we do. Fundamentally, self awareness is suffering compared to no self-awareness because there is no longer the ocean being the ocean.

For reasons why we suffer in our current lifetime can differ from person to person because sufferings can occur out from selfless love for other's or it can come from selfishness.

Some martyr types can suffer through sacrificing themselves because of their beliefs and their just causes, some can show the way in this respect to other's that will continue life in their absence.

There in this respect is so much to it depending on what the main ingredients are that make up one's life experience.

I think what helps if you can, is not to blame other's or blame anything else for one's sufferings even when there appears to be injustices.

It's very difficult to do this in practice because the overwhelming evidence suggests that one has been wronged in someway .

This leads into creating one's own experiences on a subconscious level which is not going to be easy to prove.

I believe at times that not knowing the bigger picture in these cases must throw at least a slither of doubt upon why this is happening or why do I feel this way, or why does that person treat me badly, why has God forsaken me lol ..

There was a time where I was on my knees suffering to the extent that I cried for help, I cried for understanding in regards to why am I suffering and within that suffering I self enquired into who is this that suffers? Who is this that allows me to suffer and such likes.

Depending on how you look at it, sufferings are a blessing or a curse but without the catalyst for sufferings endured, likened to the dark night of the soul that many have experienced, something beautiful comes from it like the phoenix that rises from the ashes.

When you look at things from this perspective you can see that there is only love at the heart of all sufferings, it's just in the immediate that we don't see the bigger picture.


x daz x

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

So much of THIS.

To the extent that if one could just allow themselves to be the victim of circumstance, they would not suffer!

Suffering occurs when we interject the ego into the equation, in the bid to control those circumstances that lead to our perceived victimisation.

It is all about anal retentiveness...then blaming God for our emotional constipation.

What you have just outlined, describes me to a tee...I am terrified of my own power, even though I am fully aware of the potential and subsequent outcomes...the fear is not based on how dark, evil etc that it is..but just how freaking overwhelming of "self" and "ego" that it is...so I let it through in small, manageable doses, but I also suffer many neurological problems because I hold it back..you know...you have seen it...felt my energy and understand, so you would have more of a "heads up" on this, more than anybody else.

I feel that what you have written was aimed at me..even though that may not have been the intent...and I am reminded of the quote by Marianne Williamson which is on the first page of my personal journal..

http://skdesigns.com/internet/articl..._deepest_fear/

Now this gets to the holes drilled in my Tupperware container.

I was basing this mostly on my own experiences, but I guess they apply to anyone who has had a taste of divinity.

[Emm]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

First of all, I have no use for your pity. So pwease *puppy eyes* keep it to yourself. And in the name of allfather Odin and the very foundations of Asgard itself, be a little bit more creative than bringing karma into it because I don't believe in karma. I'll say what quite a lot of you are eager to hear; I'm not a good person. But the fact is, there are people out there that make me look like the holy virgin Mary, yet they get away with everything they do. That's enough evidence for me that karma isn't real.

Now to get to the core: they say life is all about growing, learning life lessons, and to love yourself and as well others. That's even what a huge majority of NDEs talk about. But I really have certain issues with that. For one, yes I agree that suffering is necessary to a point so that you develop a better personality and be more kind and helpful to others. However, as everything should be perfectly balanced, so should the amount of suffering one soul is forced to undergo. When one's endless agony and suffering in life goes beyond the limit that is necessary, you'll become cold, emotionless, bitter, and apathetic. I know that because I'm one of those abominations. If there was something for me to learn from all this nonsense, well then I have either failed or simply learned the 'wrong' things. This is a good example of cause and effect. A disruption of balance and the severe concequences that it brings. Should there indeed be a higher force involved with our lives, then this thing many of you call God is evil beyond human comprehension. If there was a devil, even he'd be like: ''woah, chill out dude''. There truly is no word for this kind of unspeakable evil.

So now my simple question that I want to ask: what is the point of suffering if it goes beyond the necessary limits and brings the opposite results that God, angels, higher self, (or whatever floats your boat) was hoping for? Because I see it as totally pointless. I'm also aware that I contradict myself as a self-proclaimed atheist with this thread, but that doesn't stop me from asking this question to see what kind of logic spiritual people come up with. Because maybe, just maybe, there is a very tiny less than 1% chance that you'll prove me wrong. Unfortunately, one of my biggest curses in this life is that I never appear to be wrong. As fun as it sounds, it isn't. Trust me with that.

I suspect that advice is not really what you're asking for, but an arguement to prove yourself right, again. But, I will take some time out of my day just to point something out that could change things for you. Take a look at the points I've bolded from your statement above...this is what you think and believe about yourself. Why on earth would your reality then be anything other than what you believe it to be?

Of course you're going to be right, you created it. Your reality is going to be exactly what you think it is. I don't have to prove it to you, you've proved that for yourself just by making that last statement.

If you really really want your life to change, then try looking at life and yourself, no matter how small in a more kindly light. Keep looking and ignore the stuff that makes you feel bad. 'Cos my friend you get what you concentrate on, no more no less.

If you believe its necessary to suffer, then so be it.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by iamthat

This thread is titled When there is no balance to suffering...

The issue of suffering and balance seems to be all about karma and reincarnation, so it seems very relevant to this discussion. So why do you believe that karma fails even with reincarnation included?

Peace

Think about it this way: if my karma is nasty because I have been Josef Mengele in a past life, I should at least have the right to know that so I can accept my karma with dignity. But I don't know the reason for this karmatic effect because I am for some stupid moronic reason not allowed to remember my past lives, while I could've learned a big deal from them. So that makes both karma and reincarnation irrelevant. But of course, let's rather not talk about those mysterious few 'chosen ones' who have the privilege to remember their past lives while others don't.

[Shivani Devi]

I don't know why it is that whenever I allow myself to get bogged down in the idiosyncrasies of human existence, my Higher Self sings me a lullaby to engender servile platitude...I have already posted it in one thread, but it also belongs here...and everywhere else on this forum..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

How is that for an affirmation?

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Emm

I suspect that advice is not really what you're asking for, but an arguement to prove yourself right, again. But, I will take some time out of my day just to point something out that could change things for you. Take a look at the points I've bolded from your statement above...this is what you think and believe about yourself. Why on earth would your reality then be anything other than what you believe it to be?

Of course you're going to be right, you created it. Your reality is going to be exactly what you think it is. I don't have to prove it to you, you've proved that for yourself just by making that last statement.

If you really really want your life to change, then try looking at life and yourself, no matter how small in a more kindly light. Keep looking and ignore the stuff that makes you feel bad. 'Cos my friend you get what you concentrate on, no more no less.

If you believe its necessary to suffer, then so be it.

I don't think it works that way. Let me give you one example; a serial killer will always be a moron, no matter if he believes himself to be a good person. Believing differently simply won't affect the reality of what he truly is. And based on this argument alone, I can conclude that we don't create our own personal realites. Rather, we are subject to one huge reality itself. Also, my friends don't think of me as a bad person, otherwise they wouldn't be my friend. I call myself a bad person because I gladly embrace my dark side instead of hiding it and pretending to be only light-indwelled like some misguided people think they are.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Think about it this way: if my karma is nasty because I have been Josef Mengele in a past life, I should at least have the right to know that so I can accept my karma with dignity. But I don't know the reason for this karmatic effect because I am for some stupid moronic reason not allowed to remember my past lives, while I could've learned a big deal from them. So that makes both karma and reincarnation irrelevant. But of course, let's rather not talk about those mysterious few 'chosen ones' who have the privilege to remember their past lives while others don't.

You see, the whole philosophy of karma and reincarnation exists to potentially explain something which can have no plausible explanation otherwise. So you can either say "I honestly don't know" or you can say "it is because of Karma" and human beings don't like to admit that they don't know...this is the whole crux of the matter. Maybe Karma and reincarnation exists..maybe it does not, but you don't get to say that something is bogus because you don't personally believe it to be true.

It is just like those who say God does not exist because I have never seen God...I have never seen a lot of things that others claim to exist and all I can say in regards is that they do not exist for ME, because everybody's experience of reality is subjective and unique.

I don't know if I personally believe in Karma or reincarnation either, the jury is still out of town on that one...as a Hindu, I am expected to and I extol it as being a widely accepted paradigm according TO my religion, but I would rather say "I have no idea whatsoever" when asked directly, rather than dismiss it because I cannot remember anything about it.

What I do remember, is my Guru saying "I don't remember the first two years of my life either, but I must have lived through it because here I am".