Nirvana

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

If you are following a Buddhist tradition it is for everyone.

Especially for Zen.

Not true...

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

If you know your own nature don't you think within Buddhism it is a realization and not intellectual understanding?

As you have posted yourself, it is both. You have posted about your experiences with silence, these are memories and intellectual understandings you have about actual experiences you claim to have had. So both have existed for you. The actual thing and an intellectual memory and concept of it. You can get insights or glimpses into your true nature then lose them and then only have the intellectual memory of it.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Thank you very much for really proving you don't have a clue. Video games and the silence the great masters talk about are not close at all. Do you feel bliss playing games... No.. Just dumb..

I never said they were the same. One is unconscious, one is not. It's like the difference between a normal dream and a lucid one.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Zen is a system like every Buddhist tradition.

Well it's not a system because it is about direct experience. An experience of now with nothing becoming between me and that. A system would be adding something to what is. But yes, the conceptual outward form could be conceptualized as a system.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

It is not like you an intellectual understanding.
To you he said keep reading and get instructions because you need it video game boy.

Well no because what Bodhidharma said is if you have an intellectual understanding of what Buddha taught you don't need an external teacher anymore. Your correct understanding of it, Buddhas path, is your teacher. You already have the teaching or the teacher within you.

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Ryan,
is like playing a video games...

If you really forget yourself while watching a really good movie, you have an experience of forgetting yourself as thought for a few hours. You are not focusing on your thoughts at all if you are really into the movie. That's why it is so pleasurable. Thought can be turned off and we can relax. Like I have said many times, we are not thought. Thought is not a being. Thought has no consciousness. Thought is a product of the brain which may or may not be directed or influenced by higher levels of awareness and consciousness.

It is possible to think non-stop during movies, or tv shows, or video games. I am talking about those times you "lose yourself" while immersed in the experience or activity. The thoughtless states of being. We humans have them all the time. The perception of time stops during these activities. Some famous artists have talked about the experience and so have athletes and sports stars. Many Olympic athletes have talked about how they "turn off thought " and let their body take over to perform at their highest capacity. That's where "Zen archery" came from. Many athletes use Zen techniques to enter non-thinking states. It's common for sports people to say, I thought too much and that messed me up. Many go to hypnotists to learn to let go of thought and be in the moment.

Obviously, I am not talking about enlightenment when I describe the fact humans are very interested in escaping their thoughts and do so through a lot of activities. But I am describing the fact that we are all on the same path and most of us know, consciously or subconsciously, that our thoughts can be great sources of suffering. Like I said, one reason why movies or sports or video games are so popular, is they can take us out of ourselves. They give us ways to escape from our own minds.

In a lot of ways, these activities are better at giving us a break from our thoughts than religions. But then religion is about a lot of different things. It provides community, a sense of belonging. socializing etc. Religion is a job and source of income for a lot of people. People can make money teaching or writing books about religion. People make religious movies and videos and tv shows. Religion can be a business. Religion provides belief systems to comfort us or give us hope etc. Really, the ideas about becoming free from thought are a very small part or fraction of religion. Morality is also a part of religions. Rules or laws of how we should behave, what we should do. Telling people they should be kind and forgiving and non-judgmental and love each other for example. But yea this very small percentage of people within different religions are into these ideas of self-realization. And even among this group, to a lot is an egotistical pursuit.

A cool thing about zen, is the idea you practice "beingness" in every activity. So when eating a morning bowl of cereal for example, you try to just be there in that moment, without paying attention to your thoughts. So you try to consciously enter the same thoughtless state you experience while watching a movie. The "silence" you experience in a movie is unconsciously caused and unconsciously experienced. The movie draws you in away from your thoughts. In Zen, your intent and will, your awareness draws you away from thought. It is a conscious experience of inner silence.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Not true...

Please provide an example.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

As you have posted yourself, it is both. You have posted about your experiences with silence, these are memories and intellectual understandings you have about actual experiences you claim to have had. So both have existed for you. The actual thing and an intellectual memory and concept of it. You can get insights or glimpses into your true nature then lose them and then only have the intellectual memory of it.

I am experiencing it right now it is not a memory. It isn't an intellectual understanding but a sharing of that being.

I never said they were the same. One is unconscious, one is not. It's like the difference between a normal dream and a lucid one.

What? You said silence was the same as a video game and not hard to achieve. Much different than any dream state.

Well it's not a system because it is about direct experience. An experience of now with nothing becoming between me and that. A system would be adding something to what is. But yes, the conceptual outward form could be conceptualized as a system.

It is a system because it is called a tradition with levels even. All of Buddhism is about direct experience.

Well no because what Bodhidharma said is if you have an intellectual understanding of what Buddha taught you don't need an external teacher anymore. Your correct understanding of it, Buddhas path, is your teacher. You already have the teaching or the teacher within you.

Read the entire sermon. No teaching in all of Buddhism says if you have an intellectual understanding you should stop having a teacher and learning. As a matter of fact the pirates are talking about tells you not to be one of those people. It is the same as just knowing sutras ..

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Please provide an example.

Don't follow a Buddhist tradition, just follow the Buddha, simple.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

If you really forget yourself while watching a really good movie, you have an experience of forgetting yourself as thought for a few hours. You are not focusing on your thoughts at all if you are really into the movie. That's why it is so pleasurable. Thought can be turned off and we can relax. Like I have said many times, we are not thought. Thought is not a being. Thought has no consciousness. Thought is a product of the brain which may or may not be directed or influenced by higher levels of awareness and consciousness.

It is possible to think non-stop during movies, or tv shows, or video games. I am talking about those times you "lose yourself" while immersed in the experience or activity. The thoughtless states of being. We humans have them all the time. The perception of time stops during these activities. Some famous artists have talked about the experience and so have athletes and sports stars. Many Olympic athletes have talked about how they "turn off thought " and let their body take over to perform at their highest capacity. That's where "Zen archery" came from. Many athletes use Zen techniques to enter non-thinking states. It's common for sports people to say, I thought too much and that messed me up. Many go to hypnotists to learn to let go of thought and be in the moment.

Obviously, I am not talking about enlightenment when I describe the fact humans are very interested in escaping their thoughts and do so through a lot of activities. But I am describing the fact that we are all on the same path and most of us know, consciously or subconsciously, that our thoughts can be great sources of suffering. Like I said, one reason why movies or sports or video games are so popular, is they can take us out of ourselves. They give us ways to escape from our own minds.

In a lot of ways, these activities are better at giving us a break from our thoughts than religions. But then religion is about a lot of different things. It provides community, a sense of belonging. socializing etc. Religion is a job and source of income for a lot of people. People can make money teaching or writing books about religion. People make religious movies and videos and tv shows. Religion can be a business. Religion provides belief systems to comfort us or give us hope etc. Really, the ideas about becoming free from thought are a very small part or fraction of religion. Morality is also a part of religions. Rules or laws of how we should behave, what we should do. Telling people they should be kind and forgiving and non-judgmental and love each other for example. But yea this very small percentage of people within different religions are into these ideas of self-realization. And even among this group, to a lot is an egotistical pursuit.

A cool thing about zen, is the idea you practice "beingness" in every activity. So when eating a morning bowl of cereal for example, you try to just be there in that moment, without paying attention to your thoughts. So you try to consciously enter the same thoughtless state you experience while watching a movie. The "silence" you experience in a movie is unconsciously caused and unconsciously experienced. The movie draws you in away from your thoughts. In Zen, your intent and will, your awareness draws you away from thought. It is a conscious experience of inner silence.

Those ways are called escape, not a realization of deeper levels of your self.

I am so sad that you are so lost and refuse to do anything.

You don't sit and meditate. You say you do mindfulness all day but this shows you really don't know what that is.

Please Ryan sit and meditate for 15 minutes twice a day and then you will learn. Then you will experience not intellectualize.

Please, please do something.

Please talk to someone a lama a Zen teacher.

If nothing else ask yourself why you won't open up and read or reach out to a person for assistance.

Don't blame someone outside or yourself. Find the reason within and dig into it.

I know you don't like me, I could introduce you to people who are much nicer than me and they could help. I can introduce you to people who travel around the world and study under famous Rinpoches. People who have spent decades translating Taoist texts.

If all that is to much get on Facebook and talk to some teachers but Ryan do something because you really don't understand.

All the best,

Tom

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Don't follow a Buddhist tradition, just follow the Buddha, simple.

When I said every tradition is teacher based don't say it doesn't .

Read what I am writing not what you want to hear.

That is not following a tradition. So your previous answer was wrong with regard to my statement.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

When I said every tradition is teacher based don't say it doesn't .

Read what I am writing not what you want to hear.

That is not following a tradition. So your previous answer was wrong with regard to my statement.

Please, please Jonesboy sit down and meditate, find youself a teacher or guru who can help you. Facebook i've heard can connect you to others who can help, Rinpoches etc: . Please seek help because you really don't understand, you are confused

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I could introduce you to people who are much nicer than me...

It's actually not hard to find nice people.