Nirvana - Page 16

RyanWind · #**151** 21-07-2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

all of reality is emptiness, ...there is no soul..

yet this idea continues to be posted...by something/someone..... lol

Logic 101

If A is true.... and B is true.....then C is true.

A: All of reality is emptiness. There is no soul.
B: A exists and was posted by a "soul."
C: Emptiness is souls posting stuff about emptiness and souls.

sky · #**152** 21-07-2016, 03:42 PM

'Bodhi' is associated with the perfection of wisdom, or sunyata. This is the teaching that all phenomena are empty of self-essence.

Before historical Buddha there were many other Buddha's who had obviously realised Sunyata therefore historical Buddha was not the first.

RyanWind · #**153** 21-07-2016, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Losing the ego is not a realization of emptiness of self or of ultimate reality.

yes it is

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I experience emptiness as I have shared and I still have the "I"..

You just named two things... the I who has the I. Which one is you? The I that has the I or is the I that the I has the real I? How can two I's be you? If one is not you, why do you have it?

jonesboy · #**154** 21-07-2016, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanWind

yet this idea continues to be posted...by something/someone..... lol

Logic 101

If A is true.... and B is true.....then C is true.

A: All of reality is emptiness. There is no soul.
B: A exists and was posted by a "soul."
C: Emptiness is souls posting stuff about emptiness and souls.

Poor logic :)

jonesboy · #**155** 21-07-2016, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123

'Bodhi' is associated with the perfection of wisdom, or sunyata. This is the teaching that all phenomena are empty of self-essence.

Before historical Buddha there were many other Buddha's who had obviously realised Sunyata therefore historical Buddha was not the first.

Then all you have to do is show a reference to one.

Stop making a blanket comment and show a reference to previous Buddha.

jonesboy · #**156** 21-07-2016, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanWind

yes it is

You just named two things... the I who has the I. Which one is you? The I that has the I or is the I that the I has the real I? How can two I's be you? If one is not you, why do you have it?

When one is having a conversation it is ok to reference a self. You and I.

I hope that helps.

I know I am a mindstream that is light that's true nature is emptiness.. I experience this.

Where are you Ryan? Are you trapped in a body?

RyanWind · #**157** 21-07-2016, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

all of reality is emptiness

Here's a clue: How could I perceive reality as containing nothing? What is the something preventing the perception of no-thing? What turns what is, into things? Reality is there... but what or who decides what it is or what it should be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

When one is having a conversation it is ok to reference a self. You and I.

You did not reference you and I. Two different people. You said quote "I still have the "I"... You claimed you have two "I's" One of those "I's" you have is an impostor!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I know I am a mindstream that is light that's true nature is emptiness.. I experience this.

Anytime you state "I am this.....can't you see the logic that if you see it, it is not you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Where are you Ryan? Are you trapped in a body?

What am I? I am not my body. I am not my memory. I am not my beliefs. I am not my opinions. I am not my thoughts. I am not my conditioning. I am that which sees this.

sky · #**158** 21-07-2016, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Then all you have to do is show a reference to one.

Stop making a blanket comment and show a reference to previous Buddha.

Oh you silly boy

you think that our historical Buddha was the first and only person to become awakened/enlightened, unbelievable..

jonesboy · #**159** 21-07-2016, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Here's a clue: How could I perceive reality as containing nothing? What is the something preventing the perception of no-thing? What turns what is, into things? Reality is there... but what or who decides what it is or what it should be?

You did not reference you and I. Two different people. You said quote "I still have the "I"... You claimed you have two "I's" One of those "I's" you have is an impostor!

Anytime you state "I am this.....can't you see the logic that if you see it, it is not you?

What am I? I am not my body. I am not my memory. I am not my beliefs. I am not my opinions. I am not my thoughts. I am not my conditioning. I am that which sees this.

Ryan,

As an intellectual concept you believe this. You are talking basic Self Inquiry.. nothing else and we are all familiar with it.. We all know what you are saying but it is not to the point of the conversation.

I can reside and be nothing..

I am not nor do I want to at this point to let go of the "I" so it is a remembered experience upon which I share when I am talking about my whole being.. Thoughts is something that is about 80% of the time right now.

There is always a knowing awareness.. You keep talking about who is saying this.. who is experiencing this.. Did not the Buddha share what he experienced? Your comments go in circles.. To share what one being experiences one can reference me or I.

Here is the Buddha for you :)

The Blessed One replied: Objects are frequently known by different names according to different aspects that they present, the god Indra is sometimes known as Shakra, and sometimes as Purandara. These different names are sometimes used interchangeably and sometimes they are discriminated, but different objects are not to be imagined because of the different names, nor are they without individuation. The same can be said of myself as I appear in this world of patience before ignorant people and where I am known by uncounted trillions of names. They address me by different names not realizing that they are all names of the one Tathágata. Some recognize me as Tathágata, some as the self-existent one, some as Gautama the Ascetic, some as Buddha. Then there are others who recognize me as Brahma, as Vishnu, as Ishvara; some see me as Sun, as Moon; some as a reincarnation of the ancient sages; some as one of "ten powers"; some as Rama, some as Indra, and some as Varuna. Still there are others who speak of me as The Un-born, as Emptiness, as "Suchness," as Truth, as Reality, as Ultimate Principle; still there are others who see me as Dharmakaya, as Nirvana, as the Eternal; some speak of me as sameness, as non-duality, as un-dying, as formless; some think of me as the doctrine of Buddha-causation, or of Emancipation, or of the Noble Path; and some think of me as Divine Mind and Noble Wisdom. Thus in this world and in other worlds am I known by these uncounted names, but they all see me as the moon is seen in the water. Though they all honor, praise and esteem me, they do not fully understand the meaning and significance of the words they use; not having their own self-realization of Truth they cling to the words of their canonical books, or to what has been told to them, or to what they have imagined, and fail to see that the name they are using is only one of the many names of the Tathágata. In their studies they follow the mere words of the text vainly trying to gain the true meaning, instead of having confidence in the one "text" where self-confirming Truth is revealed, that is, having confidence in the self-realization of noble Wisdom.

RyanWind · #**160** 21-07-2016, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I know I am a mindstream that is light that's true nature is emptiness.

When you state that, what are you?

You are focusing on a thought or an idea. This then becomes your reality. You are projecting this thought in your mind as "truth" and typing it out in these forums. You are basically saying, this popped into my mind, isn't it great. Everybody look at it. Five minutes from now, a different idea will pop into your mind. You will have forgotten all about this one. This is what Buddha meant about how everything is "empty" in reality.

Thoughts come and go. Where are "you" in this process? You are clinging to impermanent things. You are making them important. I really should make it a habit to say I instead of you lol. Ego's are very defensive. "Don't question my thoughts! They are true and important and right!"

Really maybe they are true and right and maybe not. In life it certainly matters. A doctor better give a patient the right medicine etc but we are talking about spiritual matters about self-realization. It does't matter in this little corner. I suppose it may matter as far as being good pointers though. Somebody could give me a horrible map of how to get somewhere and yes that would not be good. But maps are just maps. You are responsible for where you are. Dang it...I keep saying you. I am responsible for where I am! What I am from moment to moment is up to me. But I'm not trying to achieve anything or be anything. But then in another sense, I am. You can't really state this stuff in words because they always contradict. That's because there's two ways to read everything. Ego can read it... in other words, I can focus on thoughts and then continue that... focusing on one thought to the next as thought... or I can stand back and see that whole movement and step out of it.

So yes I am "doing something," but then what I am has changed if I am not focusing on thought anymore. If I am aware of all of that and dropping it as it comes up.

"I am mindstream....

No I just am. I certainly don't want to be mindstream. I want to experience what is as it is... without my mindstream being involved.