Simulated Reality

[Busby]

This discussion suits me very much. I listened to Musk's talk and could identify much of what he said with the way I have been looking at 'the world' over the past years. As a boy of about 9 I suddenly understood that that which was around me wasn't true - that there is another reality of some kind quite simply because this one, on its own, just isn't possible. rodan pointed out twice just how diverse this present 'state of things' is, it's overwhelming. Eastern philosophies have always said that the world is an illusion - this has been, and is being borne out by our scientists and their investigations into the microcosmos. We live in the macrocosmos, (our reality and the exact opposite of the microcosmos) the result of the energy stemming from the quantum world. In the end, on the bottom line there is only energy and mind.
Our minds 'ball' energy into taking form, these forms are created by mind's imagination and our imaginations (plural) create the world. We all exist within the same mind - as C.G.Jung suggested.
We do of course use words. Red means something other to you than it does to me. And words are the result of our thoughts. This little simple example leads to the utmost diversity and once repeated in every possible way leads to the immenseness which we perceive. The basic form of things, I think, is to be seen in mathematical and digital processes, which start and reflect our inner connections to worlds which exists in waves and particles which we, being ourselves digital beings (ten fingers and toes are a symbol as well as cell division) are beginning, thanks to the cyber world, to get a grasp of.

[rodan]

Yes, it's true, whether we do or do not live in a simulated universe, we still have to get on with life. Bills to pay, mortgages, jobs to go to, mouths to feed, keep a roof over our head, etc., there is no denying that.

I would call that " survive " mode. We make a living. Those like Elon Musk, thrive. They don't want to merely, survive, they want to prosper, thrive.

Now, to me, that could be a bit of evidence that we are programmed to either survive, or thrive. We are programmed to make the choice, or, rather choose the transition to go from surviving as a human, to thriving.

"skygazer" hints on that there already are those who already know this is simulation, " live in it, but not be of it ", and chose not to be part of the simulation or creator. ( assuming "creator " would be the programmer of the simulation. ( I don't want to put words in "skygazer"s post, so, if I have the interpretation wrong, please correct me )

[rodan]

Originally Posted by Busby

This discussion suits me very much. I listened to Musk's talk and could identify much of what he said with the way I have been looking at 'the world' over the past years. As a boy of about 9 I suddenly understood that that which was around me wasn't true - that there is another reality of some kind quite simply because this one, on its own, just isn't possible.......

That's almost exactly how I think of it. This world we live in, with it's technology advancing how it is, Musk mentioned that it was only 40 years ago, we had " Pong " one of the best known early arcade games, and, now we are doing virtual reality in games. In just 40 years! That's just not possible.

[Busby]

I don't think we are programmed. I think we simply take part. That this universal mind of which we are possibly discussing is indeed like an ocean and we are the drops. Maybe this taking part in life also reflects in eastern philosophy's belief in karma. It would be a good explanation of why things happen the way they do and how we move on as parts of something bigger. It's also possible that we, through our experiences - of all kinds - are assisting in creating universal mind. A god in evolution so to speak. It could be that now we have cyber worlds that we are statring to have an inkling of what life is all about.
Imagination is something we underestimate - it is however the main driving force of consciousness. Everything on this planet which hasn't/doesn't stem directly from what we call nature is a result of mankind's imagination. The 40 years since 'pong' show the acceleration of knowledge. Anything we as humans can imagine will, one day, be achieved.
We, as part of a creative mind, can constantly choose.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by rodan

That's almost exactly how I think of it. This world we live in, with it's technology advancing how it is, Musk mentioned that it was only 40 years ago, we had " Pong " one of the best known early arcade games, and, now we are doing virtual reality in games. In just 40 years! That's just not possible.

So something happened in the world over the last four decades. Technology was advanced. We went from 2D pixelated games projected on a screen, to HD virtual games projected on a screen. And you're saying this technological advancement is proof we're living in a simulated reality. Am I interpreting this correctly? In other words, this paradigm-shattering revelation regarding the very makeup of existence itself - that we're living in a simulation - is based on the observation we're now able to strap a TV-sized gadget on our heads and pretend to shoot 3D zombies.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Baile

So something happened in the world over the last four decades. Technology was advanced. We went from 2D pixelated games projected on a screen, to HD virtual games projected on a screen. And you're saying this technological advancement is proof we're living in a simulated reality. Am I interpreting this correctly? In other words, this paradigm-shattering revelation regarding the very makeup of existence itself - that we're living in a simulation - is based on the observation we're now able to strap a TV-sized gadget on our heads and pretend to shoot 3D zombies.

I think Baile, that you are taking this 40 year span on its face value. It's not, in my opinion, the number of gadgets and constant up-grades of everything we know in and of the cyber world that count, but the intrinsic, hidden knowledge we (the scientists I mean) are beginning to be able to grasp and to cope with. It is undoubtedly utterly amazing that all those things which man imagines, become, at some time, workable. What we always forget - or have never even considered - is that in the background, somewhere where we can only surmise, the ground has been tilled for us to present those forms which we have and will develop. By this I also mean that microcosmos below the atom which we can't see (yet) but which allows us, still ignorant about almost everything, to perform small miracles whether on the street, at home, in the air, in medicine and all those other technologies which we all watch with open mouths.
I truly believe that anything we can imagine could be done, will be. In time.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Busby

Anything we as humans can imagine will, one day, be achieved.

Well, actually, this is not the case. We thought for a time that we could make a meal out of nutritional pills, turns out that our digestive system is far more complicated/integrated/intra-dependent on a complex biological process that simply won't bend itself to the will of a human mind in that way. We imagined growing food using synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, which now poisons the planet and is leaving us with foods that lack nutrient density (nutrient density in our foods have fallen as much as 80% since measurements were first taken in the 1940's). And the more we drift into a computerized world the less we are able to relate directly/emotionally with each other.

The human experience is tied directly to it's animal heritage. The further we stray from that paradigm the sicker we get, both physically and mentally. We may indeed use our imagination to augment our physical experience but as we stray from the rules of natures primary format we do so at the risk of ours and the planets ability to maintain it's unique and interwoven structure.

The human imagination is a dangerous thing when it is no longer aware of it's dependency on it's primal-based origins and structure.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Busby

I think Baile, that you are taking this 40 year span on its face value. It's not, in my opinion, the number of gadgets and constant up-grades of everything we know in and of the cyber world that count, but the intrinsic, hidden knowledge we (the scientists I mean) are beginning to be able to grasp and to cope with. It is undoubtedly utterly amazing that all those things which man imagines, become, at some time, workable. What we always forget - or have never even considered - is that in the background, somewhere where we can only surmise, the ground has been tilled for us to present those forms which we have and will develop. By this I also mean that microcosmos below the atom which we can't see (yet) but which allows us, still ignorant about almost everything, to perform small miracles whether on the street, at home, in the air, in medicine and all those other technologies which we all watch with open mouths.
I truly believe that anything we can imagine could be done, will be. In time.

I can't argue with any of this. The human imagination is a magnificent miracle. I would even say spiritually-inspired.

But again, none of it makes a case for life being a simulation. One could just as easily make the case that we are rapidly learning to raise our consciousness up into spirit, and as a result are able to tap into the living stream of creation itself. There a million interpretations, depending on the particular belief-paradigm you choose to view it all from.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by organic born

The human imagination is a dangerous thing when it is no longer aware of it's dependency on it's primal-based origins and structure.

Do you mean no longer aware of the reality of real life? If so, I see completely where you're going with that and I agree. Otherwise delusion and even insanity is a real possibility, mystical paths even warn of this.

[rodan]

Originally Posted by Baile

So something happened in the world over the last four decades. Technology was advanced. We went from 2D pixelated games projected on a screen, to HD virtual games projected on a screen. And you're saying this technological advancement is proof we're living in a simulated reality. Am I interpreting this correctly? In other words, this paradigm-shattering revelation regarding the very makeup of existence itself - that we're living in a simulation - is based on the observation we're now able to strap a TV-sized gadget on our heads and pretend to shoot 3D zombies.

That is what Mr. Musk was saying at the conference. I doubt he's assuming we live in a simulation just based on that fact alone.

When computer technology surpasses human intelligence, ( probably in about 40 to 50 years from now ), going from 2d arcade games to 3d will look like child's play. Musk didn't say this, but, it's what I think.