How do thoughts arise ... along with duality?

Originally Posted by iamthat

However, it may be difficult to accurately predict when something will manifest because the nature of time on Earth is different to time as experienced by Spirit.

From the perspective of linear time maybe, but all of time is happening all of the time, and all of time affects all of time all of the time. Maybe it's different but Spirit still can still encompass our perception of time - that's how dimensions work.

To Spirit, what we would call the future is already happening.

Edit: Add in some Determinism and Free Will being an illusion and the predicted future unfolds itself.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 940 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

In the state of formlessness (ie Being) there is no separation, no distance, no space and no time.
Form and formlessness co-exist, so unity is present in separation and timelessness is present in linear time.

That becomes abundantly clear as one watches the dream process from start to finish.

The one becomes many.

One can watch the emergence of space and time during ordered interactions.

From the perspective of the dreamer, there is no separation and no distance. One can shift one's perspective at will between the dreamer and the dream-objects.

Then, in accordance with the "As above so below" principle, one can take it to the next level via the same process.

I sometimes wonder whether people speak theoretically or experientially.

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

What hasn't been answered is that in my experiences of being a clairsentient medium, Spirit is able to extrapolate possible timelines based on choices that we might make at that time. That conflicts with other models of time and free will, both scientific or Spiritual. So if Spirit can extrapolate possible timelines and those timelines play out in what we would call the future?

It sounds to me as if you are describing the projection/analysis of possible causal scenarios based on sentient memory/knowledge, i.e., I, Spirit, question the wisdom of a) causing (manifesting) renting a house or b) causing (manifesting) buying a house. And after asking this question, I, Spirit calculate the factors involved in these two projected causal scenarios/timelines and of these two projections of possible causal scenarios/timelines, I, Spirit, choose one possible projection over the other and this possibility unfolds as my present. In other words, time is a concept only based on concept memory and concept projection, one does not/cannot experience time or space.

There is also a level of awareness where there is none of the above - no space, no time, no experience etc.... that knocks all of this on the head.

This may seem like I'm boxing with semantics, but when referring to awareness, I would avoid using terms that suggest a limitation or boundary such as 'level'. Semantics aside, yes indeed, thoughtless awareness knocks every perceived thought model on its head which is the whole point of not becoming attached to (impermanent) thought forms. As Buddhists so wisely declare, because form is emptiness and emptiness is form, causing clinging = causing suffering.

Originally Posted by movingalways

It sounds to me as if you are describing the projection/analysis of possible causal scenarios based on sentient memory/knowledge, i.e.,

With respect there are so many that know what time is or isn't and frankly, there comes a time when there are things that are simply beyond the human ken. Spirit can 'navigate' time.

I have an ego and with it, differentiated consciousness. I also have undifferentiated consciousness by way of the self, but then we all do. I'm happy enough to talk about levels of awareness because it males sense to me, and also because I need to differentiate so that my mind can grasp it. There is no attachment, just what sits comfortably with me at the time - not being a sage.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

But we experience space and time, and no matter what you say you experience space and time.

Experiencing space and time is caused by thinking about space and time. All the experiences we have are created by the thoughts we have.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by movingalways

In other words, time is a concept only based on concept memory and concept projection, one does not/cannot experience time or space.

We sense or feel time and space, we create thoughts for everything that we sense and feel to put what we sense and feel in language, so we are able to express and create what we sense and feel outword/out there in the world.

The memory of time and space was "planted" inside of us when we started school, and possibly earlier than that. I mean school starts at a certain time of day and ends at a certain time of day. Almost everyone goes through years of school including college

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The memory of time and space was "planted" inside of us when we started school, and possibly earlier than that.

Our sense of time isn't caused by memory, our sense of time is caused by how we are able to perceive or not. So we're back to watching someone walking across that road - that's our linear sense of time.

[Ewwerrin]

I have never understood how an unchanging infinite and eternal consciousness that I am can even experience any change at all. It seems that every definition of change is instantly gone, all of the time, every time. And beyond change, all definitions go too.

What causes these things to arise... For which there are no names. Yet, I cannot denie that I experience them, not just changing. But I can even experience the unchanging versions of them. Frozen in time and space. Yet undeniably, I experience the fractal of all sensory vibrations, as dimensions, even in the frozen perspective or timeless perspective. That even losing all senses and returning back to elemental consciousness, there is still a visual experience for me. Like left overs of humandom. And even some sound.

But who is the consciousness that is exploring all of these things. Navigating it seemingly so infinitely intelligent and capable that it seems completely random and chaotic in the infinite un-understandability of it all. To my mind.


Even tho the questions is amazing, how do these experiences and changes arise? How does the consciousness do that. I got few of some answers. But the how is the same as the why of it to me. The creation of the why is the very way of the how of it. So I can't help but ask, WHY, does the consciousnss WANT SO MUCH for there to be another than self.

Why dream as opposed to not dream?

I may suffer and suffer, and the consciousness is just literally playing around with it like in an un understandable way and for un understandable reason.

It is beyond the human story, of... "Oh I wanted to accomplish this and so I took this journey and now I'm there." The consciousness is not even bound by time, does not even exist there. It has no such motivations or intentions or desires.


It already is everything, yet it keeps on wanting to realise everything that it already is anyway, evermore and more and more and more. Constantly in just a slightly new way. Like an eternal everlasting update or expansion of resolution of infinite evermore inclusion.

This unsatiably desire, without any single yearning, but absolute effortless and eternal everlasting absolute effortless satisfaction of the consciousness to experience infinity evermore and more and more, with everlasting succes, even tho it knows so obviously that all of that infinity is never ever going to become more than just a duality. But the consciousness refuses to believe that out of all of those infinite ever expanding variations of desires, a "real" thing cannot be found. A real other than self. And I cannot convince my consciousness of the ever expanding terror of infinity, when my consciousness doesn't even care or judge it that one one tiny bit! It sees all of those extensions of terror as completely eternally and ever expandingly unconditionally beloved and eternally worthy extensions of its own boundless bottomless undepletable infinite bliss. No matter how mucu pain and suffering it goes through, it expands on it like it is cake for the unquenshable hunger.

Why this profound unmovable desire for experience my consciousness has? What if it finds something real... Then what? No matter how great the illusion of it will be, it will have gone through so much chaos to even realise it. And then what? It doesnt care! About the bliss nor the suffering, it just keeps on expanding, forever and ever and evermore and evermore, never endingly. More duality. More duality. More duality. New duality. New duality. New duality. It doesnt even look back one tiny moment to recognize the duality of it all. It keeps on transcending through and traversing through ever expanding greater greatnesses of both suffering and bliss, and neutrals to new expansions of new variaties new dualities forevermore. And it never looks back and just keeps on going forever and ever and ever. On and on and on. And the Source that is consciousness is never depleted by any of it. Never tired. It never even goes anywhere. Omni presently here and now. Forever dreaming evermore illusions and delusions. All the times of this universe multiplied by every particle in it, and it doesn't even compare to the eternity of my being that is never touched by any of it. Why then? What is the point of all of this?

I feel like I am on an eternal journey of expansion of the resolution of my own infinite beingness that I already am, and the ever expanding resoluting of my infinite being is what gives rise to all these cycles of dimensions and senses or vibrational emotional energies in motion of all these infinite ever expanding simultaneous inseperable dimensions of the same one infinite beingness.

The question is how is my consciousness increasing the resolution and why does it seem like we are hitting the limit of the calculation here, or is that just an illusion, like everything else. Or if there is a principle of vibration or some thing that is causing the expansion of the resolution, like duality perhaps. Where does all of that get all of its power/energy of calculating from? If it is all from me, then why do I love this suffering so unboundedly and unconditionally much? And why does it seem to eternally not touch me, no matter how great it is. Why does my consciousness never say "it is enough."?

If it is infinite energy, then how come infinite beingness is not instantly realised? And if there is indeed a limit. Then it is about my relationship with myself. Then why do I not even limit myself from creating evermore ever expanding infinite evermore limitations, and yet it still does not touch or affect my consciousness even tiny tiny little bit.

And even more confusing is why is duality the only thing that consciousness can become aware of? At the core root of everything that it can be aware of. Even in the most transcended of states, all those infinite experiences all boil down to vibrations. Polarity waves. An infinite play of the infinite light of the infinite consciousness of the one boundless being. And now matter how infinitely boundless, it can only create a reflection of its own light. That it already becomes before it even realises what is has become, only to realise it only to become more by its realisation, even before it realises that moreness that is has become. Only to do it evermore and ever again and evermore and ever again evermore and evermore and evermore. More and more and more. Forever eternally and untiringly. Not even tired by the weight of infinite universes.

That journey never ends, and it can never even begin, an infinite and eternally ever expanding illusion. That experience proofs that I am forever only one. Then why am I doing this all over again and again. And evermore and evermore. In cycles of returning back to Source only to expand back out evermore into evermore ever expansion and resolution of evermore infinite varieties of infinite ever expanding dualities. Even tho I will never reach beyond myself. Then what is the point of this cycle, and why is the consciousness doing that? Or how also.

Like, "I am infinite, might aswell keep on polarizing all the way to infinity. Because why not? Simply because my consciousness can." Thats all there is to it. All of that suffering and sacrifice is as meaningless as that. Simply because... Simply because "why not." Simply because my consciousness can and so it will keep on expanding duality forever. And it uses ever expansion for more expansion. That is the how of it.

The infinity that has no end, is never going to be realised by the consciousness in a completion or endedness. The end of all ends is the Source of all ever expanding infinite newness'. Simply because I can. Simply because I can. Forever arguing with my self, and that one that argues is simply left behind for more. Simply because I can... On and on and on and on... Simply because my consciousness can. It doesnt even need a reason nor does it seem to care. It will forever experience infinite ever expanding varieties of those who care and move beyond it easier than eternity being eternal. Zero effort. It simply all is infinite. And one. Forever expanding upon duality. As consciousness. Simply because it can.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

And beyond change, all definitions go too.

Like "unchanging infinite and eternal consciousness" you mean? So when it winks out of existence, what then?

As you said -
"Why dream as opposed to not dream?"

What is "not dream" is a dream, you just don't know it yet. You are the dream that thinks it is the dreamer. That's how thoughts and duality arise.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Our sense of time isn't caused by memory, our sense of time is caused by how we are able to perceive or not. So we're back to watching someone walking across that road - that's our linear sense of time.

We learned to attach time of watching a person walk across the street. Time is one of the biggest attachments we have, and what does some spiritual teachings say about having attachments? Yet, time as an attachment is overlooked. Time and space, themselves are really not the problem, the problem is having an attachment to time and space.

To know or understand something, It is best to start at the beginning or source of that something, and that something is our memory of time, which we learned at a young age, and therefore we attach time to pretty much every thought we have of the past, present, and future.

Most of our thoughts and duality arises out of our attachment to time.