Endless spiritual paths.

[Taking a Break]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

I see my path as a well planed a executed operation.
For 30 years I stumble trough life.
My guides drop a few flags for me, I follow them for the next almost 30 years.

I awaken fully and do what I came to do.
Now I wait for the next step which is very near.

Master Rah nam, with all due respect to everybody but it looks like I am the only that is curious about your next step, which is very near.

Originally Posted by God-Like

haha yes, all one is doing is denying that which presents itself in relation to self hoping that if you ignore it for long enough it will go away all by itself.

What I can gather by speaking to others regarding their supposed non-self / non identity is that there is an identity had in the denial of it lol, that’s the mad ironic thing about it. In order to renounce / disregard one’s self identity one has to identify with it in order to know what it means or refers too in reflection of what they identify themselves being. Even buddha’s teachings came from a reflection of self identity in order for any of it to make sense.

I don’t think that there is the understanding of what self identified actually means in regards to how one perceives the world and how they engage within it.

When I had my non functioning episode / non identity awareness there was no knowing of what anything is / means, there were no thought that I AM this or that, one couldn’t make a cup of tea because one hasn’t identified self let alone tea.

Floating around in the so called now moment, chanting mantras all reflects self identified despite what they may think to the contrary.

Going back to your quote regarding hunger pains, I read somewhere that Ramana had to be fed because he was out of it so to speak.

This is the difference I am speaking of, there is the supposed non identified self that feels hungry and tries to deny there is a self that experiences this hunger and there is the genuine non self experiencer that has no thought of self or food.


x daz x

A Spirituality that's based on intentional ignorance? Sorry but it's not for me. Perhaps it might be worth starting a thread on the negative karma associated with intentional ignorance, that might be interesting.


It's interesting that people are attached to their non-attachment, that people identify with being Spiritual and and having non-identification, and are in denial about their denial. Definitely mad ironic for sure. Gotta love this stuff though.


I was reading some interesting stuff about Samadhi, which is the dissolution of Maya or the false self. It was interesting that even in a state of complete Samadhi the person always used the word 'I', there was always a central point if you like from which to have their perspectives and experiences. Buddhism has always come across as being more pragmatic and isn't so concerned with ideologies and theologies, it's as much of a 'get you through Life' guide as anything else. Buddha always seemed to be more down-to-earth too.


Regardless, there's a central point of consciousness and we have a relationship with ourselves and the external world/Universe from there. If there wasn't that relationship we wouldn't know we were there and we wouldn't know we were Spiritual. If we didn't identify with ourselves there would be no self.


Your non-functioning episode, was that very temporary or did it last over a period of time? I've had flashes of those and it's very disconcerting even for the less-than-a-minute- that I've had them. I put it down to old age but then my consciousness has had the hippy-shakes of late, what with scary car smashes that I shouldn't have walked away from and sincere threats to my mortality. Luckily I have excellent survival tactics and my mind took a good grip of itself and I haven't experienced it since. I used to work in mental health and spent some time in a psyche ward, and that was an eye-opener in terms of reality and non-identity.


If we do anything at all we're self-identified, because complete non-identification means complete non-ability to function at anything. Is non-identification only a fancy Spiritual term for denial?


There is also the non-identifier that becomes caught up in the hype. Much of the time common sense has gone out of the window and while it may sound trendy, it's just not sensible.

[Taking a Break]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

In fact, there are as many different spiritual paths as those who walk upon them. Even "no path" is still a path!

The path that I took doesn't really exist anymore...It was one of those religions which died out and did not survive beyond the 13th Century.

How did I choose the path I am on? I was never really sure whether I was a Shaivite Hindu OR a Vajrayana Buddhist OR followed the path of Animism so, I figured why do I NEED to make that choice, when I can simply be all three at once? Then I fully immersed myself into a very comfortable syncretism based around Tantra.

What does the path do for me? Well, nothing at the moment because I have totally fallen off it and cannot seem to get back on...choosing to remain "pathless" for a while, because I encountered a 'dead end" and that was probably why the religion died out.

When it actually "did something" for me, I could see and I understand that I was totally ALLOWED to have "concepts" but that I shouldn't be limited BY them, which was in stark contrast to every other path and spiritual or religious belief out there, and it served my precise, individual spiritual requirements.

What do I hope to get out of it? I honestly don't know. I have no idea because existence is totally unpredictable and I have learned not to hope/expect things because that will only lead to disappointment and suffering (see the Four Noble Truths).

Dear Master Shivani Devi, after my Spirit Guides took steps back I also felt like I was totally fallen off the path and could not seem to get back on...also choosing to remain “pathless” for a while, because I too encountered a “dead end” but with lots of meditation and praying I found a new path of surrender.

Originally Posted by janielee

And yet we have history and presently, millions of adepts who no longer are bound by ego. Not through denial, ignorance, affirmation, or logic, but through the work of spirituality.

Spirituality is not, anything goes. 'Anything goes' is the realm of delusion, intellect, ego.

But yes, ego will have a thousand and one reasons as to why it doesn't exist, and spirituality is the equivalent of sitting on a toilet.

Namaste,

JL

Spirituality has a propensity for doing two things, one of them is redefining words to the point where they make no sense, and denying the existence of anything other than Spirituality for it's own purposes. Personally, I'm a realist and someone who has spent a lot of time understanding what makes him tick.

Spirituality is anything anyone wants it to be because there are no hard-and-fast definitions that I am aware of, so if your have one please feel free to share. Spirituality is an entropic system and the only way to reduce the entropy is to make it a religion. What is not clear are the boundaries between religion and Spirituality, because what often passes as Spirituality is religious. And if if you practice your Spirituality religiously?

“We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans, which was suppose to help people grow spiritually. Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High of Creation. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe, and each other…”
Haile Selassie

And yet we have even more history of people being people regardless of what religion, belief system or philosophy they belong to, because regardless of how much people become adepts or claim the be "holier than thou" human nature underpins everything. And I hate to say it but Spiritual people are bound by ego as much as anybody else.

So, here's the challenge should you choose to accept it. Google what Freud or Jung says about the ego and gain yourself a little more understanding from the world's foremost experts on the subject, or not. Whichever one you choose, come back and talk to me about your reasons for doing it. Then perhaps we can have an honest discussion about either seeking wisdom and understanding or being in denial and/or ignorance.

Spirituality would talk of "All that Is" yet deny and remain ignorant of all else that underpins it, and the frameworks it's built on. Spirituality would have itself exist in and become the lord of its splendid isolation, in a Universe that is interconnected and everything exists in relation to something else.

You see, Spirit doesn't do Spirituality.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Hallow,

This and the posts about choices brought some thoughts to me.

If given the decision to make, then can agree the choice is there.

When something happens unexpected or knew it was going to happen just not when, then is this a choice? After the fact, yes, the choice(s) as to what to do, how to cope, or perhaps incorporate or not what gets learned present themselves. But, the experience itself may not be a choice given, it just happens.

Now, is this "spiritual". To me yes. For the strength found with in to move on, the support realized, the inspiration to rebuild, sometimes found through surviving times in life in which may feel the bottom has fallen out from beneath the feet.

For the biggest teacher has been life itself.

Sometimes given choices/decisions to make. Sometimes things just happen both happy and challenging. I didn't always choose them, they just came along. Both teach me and at times inspire me. Show me my inner strength, abilities, and weakness. Shown not only what it is to be aware of my spiritual side, but also of my human side. Which seem to blend together with in the flow of life itself.

YES!!! that's it!

Originally Posted by Greenslade

And yet we have even more history of people being people regardless of what religion, belief system or philosophy they belong to, because regardless of how much people become adepts or claim the be "holier than thou" human nature underpins everything. And I hate to say it but Spiritual people are bound by ego as much as anybody else.

If you mean by spiritual people, the genuinely awakened masters and adepts of this world, then no, I don't believe they were, or are. That is the definition of spirituality, in my understanding - surrender OF ego, submission TO truth/love -for those who are interested in the path of practice/realization/Truth. For such people, ego is no longer what it once was - it is transformed into Light, it is effectively debunked, if not already well diminished.

For anyone else, of course, anything goes, and to live a happy wholesome life is enough. That is already so beautiful and appreciated.

That spiritual practice has a way about it, and is also not one which claims that ego is "normal" is "Google-able" via any judicious and genuine inquiry: Rumi, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Meister Eckhart, St John of Cross, Sri Nisargadatta, Ramana Mahasri, Sri Aurobindo, Bodidharma, St Francis of Assisi etc.

I understand that YMMV...and respect and appreciate that your path may be the right one for you, your views, the ones that work for you.

I speak for the wider context and rationale of spiritual seekers, past future and present.

JL

[running]

Originally Posted by janielee

If you mean by spiritual people, the genuinely awakened masters and adepts of this world, then no, I don't believe they were, or are. That is the definition of spirituality, in my understanding - surrender OF ego, submission TO truth/love -for those who are interested in the path of practice/realization/Truth. For such people, ego is no longer what it once was - it is transformed into Light, it is effectively debunked, if not already well diminished.

For anyone else, of course, anything goes, and to live a happy wholesome life is enough. That is already so beautiful and appreciated.

That spiritual practice has a way about it, and is also not one which claims that ego is "normal" is "Google-able" via any judicious and genuine inquiry: Rumi, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Meister Eckhart, St John of Cross, Sri Nisargadatta, Ramana Mahasri, Sri Aurobindo, Bodidharma, St Francis of Assisi etc.

I understand that YMMV...and respect and appreciate that your path may be the right one for you, your views, the ones that work for you.

I speak for the wider context and rationale of spiritual seekers, past future and present.

JL

the aspect of the ego that blocks one from source dies. the person as in identity, memories, preferences, and so on doesn't die. im sure some you would be more agreeable to. but others probably not. is it your idea of how one is to be the determining factor of being open to the source? or is it source?

in the process i have found its more important to accept oneself in it. rather than block it until you make yourself(if thats possible) to ones ideals of the Right personality for it. that in my view is going to cause a lot of inner conflict. and in a real kundlini awakening could get ugly. maybe not. but perhaps. anyways the mind is where the judgment comes from. not from the source. bliss and silence. i dont experince judgement from bliss. i have been critical of myself due to programming of the world of how im not worthy of it unless all the hoops are passed. perhaps the biggest road block ever created. once overcome only then laughed at. what a con. no longer fooled. then the bliss and silence can roam free naturaly without the mind getting in the way. as a thought experiment. fou notice how that very thing may be part of the ego that must die. was for me anyways.

Double post

Originally Posted by Greenslade

So, here's the challenge should you choose to accept it. Google what Freud or Jung says about the ego and gain yourself a little more understanding from the world's foremost experts on the subject, or not. Whichever one you choose, come back and talk to me about your reasons for doing it. Then perhaps we can have an honest discussion about either seeking wisdom and understanding or being in denial and/or ignorance.

Why would I google people who are not the foremost spiritual adepts, and instead a group of psychiatrists (with no disrespect to the profession)

Here's my offering to this thread, FWIW:

The message of the Upanishads is the life divine, the life of transformed humanity, and the life of an illumined earth-consciousness. The Upanishads tell us that the renunciation of desire-life is the fulfilling enjoyment of world-existence. This renunciation is neither self-denial nor self-rejection. This renunciation demands the transcendence of ego to breathe in freely the life-energy of the soul and yet to live a dynamic and active life in the world where one can achieve Infinity’s Height, Eternity’s Delight, and Immortality’s Light.”

Source: Sri Chinmoy

Distinguishing Ego from Self - Chuang Tzu

There is nothing new to get - Ramana Maharsi

Samadhi - Yogananda

I am He - Shankaracharya

One Whisper - Rumi

The Prophet Said - Eickhart

JL

[neil]

Originally Posted by hallow

Understanding there's almost a endless selection of spiritual paths to take. How did you choose the one you're on? What does your path do for you? What is your end goal?

Below are my understanding of life with or without the flesh body, and backed up by spiritual beings..And for anyones considerations.

Endless spiritual paths !..mmm, maybe, there are no human paths, because we are not really humans.
Human is just a name given to Earthlings by Earthlings, but we are really spiritual Soul beings connected to a non sentient non intelligent and non conscious flesh body and living a spiritual life, on a planet called earth. Untill we are disconnected from it and then which we can relocate to either the lesser Heavens or the Holy Kingdom according to the quality of Soul SELF.

In the Lesser Heavens (summerlands) all are simply living a "life", from the outer most fringes of the first sphere of the Lesser Heavens and all the way through to the furtherest location of the sixth sphere, people participate in all manner of activities just as we do here on earth, and no one there refers to life as a life of spiritualiy or a spiritual life, they are just people living their lives.

They do not need to practice eastern or western religious philosophies or techniques nor attend a house of god nor read a bible, and they do not need to worship the Heavenly Father (Creator) to grow more pure of Soulself...No..all they have to do is be more loving and the great law of "reap as one sows" will take care of the rest for them, and their quality of soulself will improve allowing them to traverse further in through the spheres to the top of the sixth sphere. People when first arriving in the first sphere are in that sphere due to their quality of Soulself. They are no less spiritual than those in the sixth sphere, those in sixth sphere are just of a more loving nature. And they did not have to sit in a meditative state in order to reach such a high quality of Soul'self way of being. All they had to do when they first arrived in the first sphere, was to be loving and the law of "reap as one sows" takes care of the rest.
They did not have to be more loving, they only had to be loving and as the "law of reap as one sows" works to it's fullest, then those people grow more loving, and soon find that they have a quality of Soulself that can withstand the intensities of the higher spheres which allows them to be capable of traversing through to the furtherest locations of the sixth sphere.

"BUT" the above only relates to the natural love spheres, and it takes a different requirement to enter into the seventh sphere.
And those requirements are still not about becoming more "spiritual". I am told that it is about longing to the Heavenly Father for the inflowings of his very Essence, and the strength of the inflowings, will flow in to us in accordance to the kind of desire for it. And it will not make one, more spiritual, it will simply make one more in the very essence of the Heavenly Father...MORE HOLY, MORE LOVING & MORE MERCIFULL.

And still, one does not need to be more spiritual or practice Eastern or Western religions to become at'one with the ALMIGHTY...JUST BE DESIROUS FOR HIS LOVE AND VERY ESSENCE TO TRANSFORM ONE INTO A CHILD OF HIS.

Neil.