Questions about consciousness and awareness

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Hey shivatar

Firstly, if you are interested, wouldn't it be much more gratifying and "real" to find out the answers to these questions for yourself?

Meditation - QUIET meditation (not the energy hoo-ha type) can provide answers to inquiries like this - real time answers that are physically manifested or intuitively discerned (without thought involved).

But briefly:

Don't you have the concepts mixed up a bit? Particularly on a forum like this, people can use words in different ways.

Regardless, I think that consciousness is the world of form, taste, touch, color, sight, sound. It's the physical world we live in.

Ego is the limited function that is utilized by Spirit to function/process/judge/evaluate/think. It is not the same as awareness (at least in my books). It often, when still mired by ignorance, takes a life of its own and it is marked by and within selfishness - even for the ego that thinks it is "unselfish". That is why ego transcendence is vital to genuine spiritual development.

Awareness is the most interesting of all these.

When consciousness is infused with the wisdom of higher self/spirit then things get interesting. That's my take.

BT

The way you said that makes me think you believe these answers could simply be found out quickly. I will find them out over the course of my life. and if it's anything like what I imagine I will be here for another few decades. So for now asking these questions is the best thing I can see to do.

discriminate quiet meditation vs energy meditation for me please.

IMO I practice quiet meditation for almost all of my day (it happens naturally for like 40% of my day), when I sit down to meditate it's always energy meditation because that is what I don't do naturally.

IDK if i have the concepts mixed up. I made this post to figure that out. IMO consciousness is a mysterious thing I haven't figured out yet, awareness is like a spotlight on a small portion of consciousness.

Hmmm. consciousness is physical...? IDK, look at us, we have a physical form but we are oh so much more. consciousness probably has a physical form too, but is always oh so much more.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I have put out the question before regarding 'who' coined the word consciousness. It has to come from somewhere . Peeps are readily willing to associate such a word and relate to it in such a way where they swear upon almighty God that what they are and what everything is, IS consciousness .

It's okay to associate a dog with a dog because it's something tangible and it's something that can be compared with a cat named a cat ..

All I can say is there is only what you are and that can be associated with cats and dogs and consciousness ..


x daz x

maybe conscious is is-ness.

so we're just gonna leave it at a big question mark... I feel like that is a good answer haha. it's a... its... well we have no idea. lol

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by markings

Consciousness in spiritual terms is interaction according to some rules like natural law. In that sense everything is conscious.

Awareness is the sensing of above interaction. This can be like instinct or goal-directed behavior. At the highest level of awareness there is the recognition of what rules are in play leading to probable and predictive outcomes.

"My consciousness" is throughout my body and not limited by it. One's level of consciousness is observable to some degree through ones displayed behavior in the external world. Our consciousness perceives the world, in more ways than our 5 senses, and also acts on and changes the world.

"My consciousness" is not a property of ourselves, our body and mind. Strictly speaking there is no such thing as "My". Consciousness exists throughout the universe in various forms, but like heat e.g. it can accumulate in places, the most common aggregators are living beings, and when it accumulates sufficiently it can lead to a change in how matter behaves and is acted upon.

Thank you for sharing your understanding, it has proven very insightful.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by shivatar

The way you said that makes me think you believe these answers could simply be found out quickly. I will find them out over the course of my life. and if it's anything like what I imagine I will be here for another few decades. So for now asking these questions is the best thing I can see to do.

Fair enough, s. I happen to think that they can be found "relatively" quickly through the power of meditation (quiet meditation) and practice (my practice is primarily guided by Buddhism). If I wanted to, I believe that meditation yields all the answers we seek, or at least most.

discriminate quiet meditation vs energy meditation for me please.

Quiet meditation is the practices that enable a quietening down of all mental chatter - the mind is silent, aware, alert. All things which move are investigated and dropped or at least, known for what they are. The mind is bright, at peace, silent. It is the beginning of Gnosis.

Energy meditation - I just used this phrase as I remember the other post of yours ("ultimate power") whereby I assume you are playing with moving energies and dynamic ism.

IMO I practice quiet meditation for almost all of my day (it happens naturally for like 40% of my day), when I sit down to meditate it's always energy meditation because that is what I don't do naturally.

Okie

IDK if i have the concepts mixed up. I made this post to figure that out. IMO consciousness is a mysterious thing I haven't figured out yet, awareness is like a spotlight on a small portion of consciousness.

I like markings, John and iamthat's postings. To be honest, I'm not sure if we are all using the word the same way. When I think of it, I am guided by how Buddhism describes it, BUT notwithstanding academic definitions, to me, and what has been revealed to me at least, is this world of time and space and distance and form (physicality) is the manifestation of consciousness. It is finite, and concrete, and 3D. It is what enables that which is beyond time and space and form to live and experience the world of form/color/sight/sound/touch/smell etc. It is a very beautiful gift. To me that is the world of consciousness.

When we say "I am conscious" consciousness is borne of the body - sight, smell, taste, touch, mind are the mechanisms via which we experience the world of form. So that is why I think of consciousness as the physical.

Awareness, I believe, is beyond that but is aware of that which consciousness senses. There is a phrase "Is the person who knows you are upset, upset or not?"

There is of course a key distinction there.

Hmmm. consciousness is physical...? IDK, look at us, we have a physical form but we are oh so much more. consciousness probably has a physical form too, but is always oh so much more.

Consciousness is manifested in the physical. "It is so much more"....perhaps it is the genesis/seed of will. After all, there has to be an impetus for the creation and living of this physical universe. I have seen the other side and it is understandable that the creation is so beautiful.

Anyway, I haven't spent much time in years now to look into these matters, and my accuracy can no longer be assured (no recent revelations/investigations), but gee whiz, I love this topic, shivatar. Thanks for exploring it!

BT

[Gem]

Originally Posted by shivatar

There is always an object, because there is always consciousness. Even no-thing is a thing, albeit a thing beyond the mind and concepts.

I've heard that before though in a class I took that studied the nature of consciousness and dreams. that its interdependent with the object, however I find it to be more of a theory than anything.

They usually differentiate between 'awareness' and 'consciousness' saying consciousness arises in awareness, so in this contextual paradigm, 'awareness' is always regardless of objects or not, and 'consciousness' is an interdependence between object, sense and consciousness. In such contexts the senses are associated with their own sort of consciousness, so there an ear consciousness, eye consciousness... and so on. Of course it is just a theory in the sense that it is a way of understanding, and there is more than one way of understanding the same thing.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by shivatar

maybe conscious is is-ness.

so we're just gonna leave it at a big question mark... I feel like that is a good answer haha. it's a... its... well we have no idea. lol

The thing is, consciousness is a made up word that associates what we are to it somehow .

There is no 'real' / 'correct' answer for something that is made up .

If we call a dog a cat from the very start all we will know is that a cat barks .


x daz x

[John32241]

Originally Posted by shivatar

so there is an intellectual discrimination
yet to understand it we need less intellectual discrimination

i dont get it.

Hi,

The intellect itself can feel isolated and even reach a point some call a Panic Attack if it is not properly balanced.

There is a term called Heart Centered Reflection. The heart is not up in the brain region with the left lobe, right lobe, and pineal gland. However it can still form a bond with the heart when kindness and compassion for self are being used.

The understanding you seek in this instance has gotten blocked I suspect. It is like when we try to hard to figure out some thing and that effort itself is compromised. We kind of know we need to calm down, relax, and allow our self to reason things out in a more clear manner. Yet the sense of urgency keeps us from doing that effectively.

That is when heart centered reflection comes in handy. You can talk with your heart in the same way you address your logical reasoning. You can say things to it like 'I am stuck on some things I should be able to understand'. Then may be say 'i would like to be kinder to myself at this time and allow my deeper inner wisdom to come to the surface'.

Do you even know that all of us have deep inner wisdom? We do.

Any way, this form of reflection goes beyond strictly logical reasoning. It is intended to remove emotional blocks which have gotten in the way of our logical reasoning.

I hope you will find these thoughts useful.

John

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by John32241

Hi,

The intellect itself can feel isolated and even reach a point some call a Panic Attack if it is not properly balanced.

There is a term called Heart Centered Reflection. The heart is not up in the brain region with the left lobe, right lobe, and pineal gland. However it can still form a bond with the heart when kindness and compassion for self are being used.

The understanding you seek in this instance has gotten blocked I suspect. It is like when we try to hard to figure out some thing and that effort itself is compromised. We kind of know we need to calm down, relax, and allow our self to reason things out in a more clear manner. Yet the sense of urgency keeps us from doing that effectively.

That is when heart centered reflection comes in handy. You can talk with your heart in the same way you address your logical reasoning. You can say things to it like 'I am stuck on some things I should be able to understand'. Then may be say 'i would like to be kinder to myself at this time and allow my deeper inner wisdom to come to the surface'.

Do you even know that all of us have deep inner wisdom? We do.

Any way, this form of reflection goes beyond strictly logical reasoning. It is intended to remove emotional blocks which have gotten in the way of our logical reasoning.

I hope you will find these thoughts useful.

John

How would I know it's my heart speaking?

I can speak to my deep inner wisdom but I've always engaged it with what I assumed was my mind. I figured since I engaged it with my mind/consciousness then it must be a part of my mind.

what I'm talking about is sometimes in your head you can talk to the abyss, and sometimes the abyss talks back to you. sometimes it's just like there are two voices that are both your lower/egoic self but just taking different sides to the same situation. it's like they are bickering and you can listen to them both.

with the deep wisdom it's like I take one side and stand my ground, I ask things to the nothingness and wait for a reply, sometimes i can have this very dim sensation that the answers are coming from outside of me. Other times it sounds like its outside of me but I have the feeling its just some kind of trick and I usually dont listen to those answers (they may sound deep to my mind, but to my heart and gut and everything else they dont ring so deep so i ignore or put it aside for later).

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by God-Like

The thing is, consciousness is a made up word that associates what we are to it somehow .

There is no 'real' / 'correct' answer for something that is made up .

If we call a dog a cat from the very start all we will know is that a cat barks .


x daz x

technically every word is made up but that doesn't make them not worth learning or using.

are you saying there is no point in learning or using, only a point in observing? that may be a little too deep for where I am right now. I'm trying to learn, then later I can let go of whatever I learn if need be.

[John32241]

Originally Posted by shivatar

How would I know it's my heart speaking?

I can speak to my deep inner wisdom but I've always engaged it with what I assumed was my mind. I figured since I engaged it with my mind/consciousness then it must be a part of my mind.

what I'm talking about is sometimes in your head you can talk to the abyss, and sometimes the abyss talks back to you. sometimes it's just like there are two voices that are both your lower/egoic self but just taking different sides to the same situation. it's like they are bickering and you can listen to them both.

with the deep wisdom it's like I take one side and stand my ground, I ask things to the nothingness and wait for a reply, sometimes i can have this very dim sensation that the answers are coming from outside of me. Other times it sounds like its outside of me but I have the feeling its just some kind of trick and I usually dont listen to those answers (they may sound deep to my mind, but to my heart and gut and everything else they dont ring so deep so i ignore or put it aside for later).

Hi,

Putting things aside for later evaluation is often best. We need to discerm how best to assess all these inputs we are receiving.

I once had an experienjce where some one who had lost their heart connection came to me for assistance. Those things can happen. In your case, you may need to build a bridge to it. It has a voice like all these others you have described. Your intent to make the connection will create that result.

In the end we are the free choice decision maker. What advice we choose to follow is our choice. I like to encourage following our authentic inclinations in that respect. That choice puts energies in motion which lead to better outcomes. For we are who we are in this life expression. We do our best with it.

John