do we exist before birth/conception?

[metal68]

Just wondering that even if we dismiss reincarnation, is there a proto awareness before we physically exist? Is there self awareness before the brain has formed etc??

[Rawnrr]

Likely yes....but also likely it would not be as personified as we experience while within life

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Rawnrr

Likely yes....but also likely it would not be as personified as we experience while within life

Yes, exactly, our personalized identity, our general expectations regarding day to day events, the sex we were born into, the culture we were raised in, all these would not be present in an individualize way before conception.

The influences do begin while the child is forming within the mother. Her diet, stress levels and hormonal influences would all play some part in shaping the developing child.
The real work in setting the personality of the infant takes place in the first couple of years after birth. We are then starting to shape the texture of a lifetime based on the influences of others along the way, and the organic influences that comes with being a biological entity.

Thus 'personality'.. and in a resulting form that would not have existed pre-birth.

[neil]

Originally Posted by organic born

Yes, exactly, our personalized identity, our general expectations regarding day to day events, the sex we were born into, the culture we were raised in, all these would not be present in an individualize way before conception.

The influences do begin while the child is forming within the mother. Her diet, stress levels and hormonal influences would all play some part in shaping the developing child.
The real work in setting the personality of the infant takes place in the first couple of years after birth. We are then starting to shape the texture of a lifetime based on the influences of others along the way, and the organic influences that comes with being a biological entity.

Thus 'personality'.. and in a resulting form that would not have existed pre-birth.

""SNAP""☆☆☆☆☆☆☆gold stars....4 anyone who is of this understanding. .......im telling you,,,,,,I am aware of some things......"QUITE A FEW SOMETHINGS" infact, that when you become aware of them...it does just BLOW the lid off of all eastern, western, northern, & southern spiritual & or religious beliefs...... & I DO NOT MIND IF I COP A ROASTING FOR MY WORDS......INFACT GO RIGHT AHEAD & ROAST ME IF YOU WISH.....
BUT PLEASE do not forget to baste me....smiles.

It changes everything in your minds regarding us & what everyone calls the afterlife......reincarnation, & yes even the concept of karma.

U know on this forum there was a member, whos nephew discovered something about spirituality, that made him race over to his uncle Pete C from the uk 's place.
Pete explained, on this forum, that his nephew acted differently than the norm for him, & that the nephew had figured something out about all things spiritual. & then the nephew went directly home & hung himself....& from what I gather from the whole uncle & nephew saga is that the nephew would not elaborate on what he had become aware of.

& this non elaborating attitude is exactly the way I am with what I have become aware of.

Because you see dark spiritual beings have been keeping this info very quite for what I believe would be since Adam was a boy....."LITERALLY"

& because it is something that, once you have become aware of it, well then that is when the dark ones will make your life hell, using what you are then aware of, AGAINST you, to control you, & to further & enrich their "ILL GOTTEN GAIN"

As they are constantly doing to myself. Because of what I have become aware of, & now my life has become unbearable, Physically to a point of wanting to leavevearth as well, but I can not, as I have responsibilities regarding my parents.

&, so now is a good time to mention that this post is not a cry out for help....but is infact an ongoing discussion with a few other forum members. So please do not try to be of an assistance to me, like others have tried to be & failed...Ta.

You see in MOP these goings on have been happening since the first pardnts were around& is the reason for their fall from being perfect beings with wondrous abilities of the soul....Which we do not display, but should.

We do not choose our parents & they do not choose us....but they do choose to create us.

Be4 conception we do not have an identity or intelligence, so their are no soul contracts. & no pre organized lessons to be learnt. & definitely no REincarnations.

Life is so simple to understand & to live, but dark beings are doing their utmost to steer us away from our inherent natural loving design...& of course away from creators way of love.....to a life full of sex drugs & violence, if it so pleases them.

But some large percentage of us do our best to overcome what we believe are thoughts that are originating from within us...instead of originating from within the dark ones who so constantly surround us & who endeavor to turn our thoughts away from creator & creator's way of love...believe it or not, you may.

& yes the influences do start when the child is still in gestation. .....but they are influences & attack on mother & unborn child in a most horrendous way that can lead to prenatal death of either mother or child, in so many different ways..& I HAVE witnessed a number of these such attacks.

When you are aware of what the dark ones can do, you then see it for exactly what it is & how it is happening.

& the above isn't anywhere near the tip of the ICEBERG.

Regards neil.....eh.

[linen53]

According to what I have read, yes. We do exist before we incarnate. We have "light" bodies/spirit bodies. We don't need a physical brain to think or be alive. How it all works? Do'no but it does.

Why do I believe this? Because I have memories of my life before I incarnated this time.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by neil

""SNAP""☆☆☆☆☆☆☆gold stars....4 anyone who is of this understanding. .......im telling you,,,,,,I am aware of some things......"QUITE A FEW SOMETHINGS" infact, that when you become aware of them...it does just BLOW the lid off of all eastern, western, northern, & southern spiritual & or religious beliefs...... & I DO NOT MIND IF I COP A ROASTING FOR MY WORDS......INFACT GO RIGHT AHEAD & ROAST ME IF YOU WISH.....
BUT PLEASE do not forget to baste me....smiles.

If I cooked you in a bag then you'd be self basting, this'd save me a lot of work! :)

Thank you for your supporting comments! .. but I'm not at all aboard with some of your base conclusions.

After many of my earlier experiences I was left wondering about the wisdom of continuing on this planet. I'm glad that my survival instincts helped get me past that. The problem I faced was that in knowing, what I now knew, I was suddenly speaking from a different place than everyone else around me were. Most were deriving their observations off of the surface impressions that swirled culturally around them. They view themselves based on what they were told they should be. They were dreaming without any real depth.

But at no time have I ever encountered this dark energy thing as a controlling force to be reckoned with, as you're speaking of. Maybe I entered this lifetime with a fairly good shield against such things or perhaps they're lower energy influences that appear to those who stray too close to them, but in all of my experiences I've yet to contend with anything physical that's not currently explainable via cultural conditioning and biological imperatives.

And don't worry, I'm not trying to save you. :) Life is a short term exposure anyway so why assume that dying at one point would be all that different than dying at another.

What I do want to do is explore your investment in this view of things. I agree with the idealism behind what you feel that we could be as a species, but I retreat from the idea that lower vibrational negative energies would have that level of sway over things. We are derived from a very clean place, if we're assuming that god created us in her/his image and likeness. So there must be something else at play other than just a bunch of energetic misfits calling all the shots?

My experiences all point toward light, toward an amalgamation of energies that collude to create a state of being that we then slip into as physical participants. Pretty powerful stuff when you think about it. I do feel that we are strongly swayed by belief in terms of the manor in which we interpret our involvement within each particular lifetime. And this is understandable. We're thinking individuals without much to go on, so we're left guessing a lot. And when we do get a view of what's going on outside of this current orientation we're left returning with such and then trying to get them to fit-in with what we're currently believing at the time.

Religion raises us on the idea of saten, evil influences, original sin, temptation.. so it's then easy to take such beliefs and overlay them onto our experiences should the experience incorporate circumstances where such things seem applicable. It's also very religious to deny our experience on earth in favor of some other agenda of a contrived set of assumptions.

I will readily acknowledge our experience here as an illusion of epic proportions, but that doesn't then default into "it's all bad stuff because of it." I personally am fascinated by the process that creates such a thing, I'm not about to spoil that by saying things like we're helplessly being victimized by a bunch of nasties.

Originally Posted by neil

When you are aware of what the dark ones can do, you then see it for exactly what it is & how it is happening.
.

I would recommend that you revisit this perspective and see if it isn't open to redefining? That to some degree such a thing is possible, at some level, but that it's not the defining factor in the formation of reality or the core component in how our experience is definable.

I'm just not seeing what you're seeing, and I'm one of those who has seen a lot.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by linen53

Why do I believe this? Because I have memories of my life before I incarnated this time.

Me to, vaguely.. and a few memories of preceding lifetimes :)

[linen53]

Yes, I have memories of past lives too. Half a dozen or so.

[neil]

Organic...nicely written...'nicely'.

I would not want you or anyone who has folk dependant upon them acfected by what I speak about, that is why I do not speak about the many ways one could be affected.

The less you know concept, the better of you would be.

The awesome thing to come out of it all for myself is that I have an out of the box understanding of a continuance of life from the earth, & a greater understanding & respect for sentient & non sentient beings & especially an interest in passed family members.

& we the members of this forum are like a huge extended family, & one day we will all transition into spirit. & one by one our group will slowly meet each other & have a yarn & a laugh about all that has kept us wondering.

Neil.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by organic born

The problem I faced was that in knowing, what I now knew, I was suddenly speaking from a different place than everyone else around me were. Most were deriving their observations off of the surface impressions that swirled culturally around them. They view themselves based on what they were told they should be. They were dreaming without any real depth.


What I do want to do is explore your investment in this view of things. I agree with the idealism behind what you feel that we could be as a species, but I retreat from the idea that lower vibrational negative energies would have that level of sway over things. We are derived from a very clean place, if we're assuming that god created us in her/his image and likeness. So there must be something else at play other than just a bunch of energetic misfits calling all the shots?

My experiences all point toward light, toward an amalgamation of energies that collude to create a state of being that we then slip into as physical participants. Pretty powerful stuff when you think about it. I do feel that we are strongly swayed by belief in terms of the manor in which we interpret our involvement within each particular lifetime. And this is understandable. We're thinking individuals without much to go on, so we're left guessing a lot. And when we do get a view of what's going on outside of this current orientation we're left returning with such and then trying to get them to fit-in with what we're currently believing at the time.

I will readily acknowledge our experience here as an illusion of epic proportions, but that doesn't then default into "it's all bad stuff because of it." I personally am fascinated by the process that creates such a thing, I'm not about to spoil that by saying things like we're helplessly being victimized by a bunch of nasties.

hi organic-born,

true enough about cultural conditioning. There aren't many people who get close to getting beyond it apparently

what you say is true enough... but the thing about the blackness and negativity is there is a such cultural bias about having to do the love and light thing, that any mention of negativity or blackness gets washed out the same way culture washes so many other things that aren't 'likable' out.

Like you say, inherently, when you are talking in an objective sense, 'dark' forces aren't any 'worse' than 'light' forces. But, when you bring culture into it, and all the wants of the people, light & love usually wins out as the concept du jour.

However, after the readings and all my experiences, I see this life as in some ways pitting the one thing against the other, so that balances can be made. In some ways if this weren't the case, culture would 'win' and we'd all be 'dead'. There would be no way back.

In that sense blackness and negativity become an important place to hide permanent truths, so that we don't go find them in an 'allowable' way and then agree on them en-masse and then just OD on the truth. This condition of not being able to understand things beyond the surface that most people are in, is a part of the design meant to strike a balance between what we would do if left to our own devices, and what must be done to keep us 'alive'. We are allowed to agree about fantasies all we want just because we want to be agreeable to each other, but when it comes to the reality of things that some of us want to face, it becomes a more lonely quest.

So the way I see it there is likely to be some very potent stuff in the darkness, to counteract the 'cultural' bias toward lightness. And experience bears this thesis out.

Also the readings are full alternately with things that seem sensational... and things that are so perplexing to us but that could easily have been done if the things that seem sensational were actually true.