Zen Anybody

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I thought it was the public school system training.
Come up with correct answer and move on to next question/problem.
My brain/ego thought it received an A+, then my spirit said "you could have just enjoyed the scent without naming it". Doh!!
Then I laughed and spent some time with our Butterfly bush plant
and we had a blast.

What happens when we realize our "spiritual" awareness or "spirits voice" is also not us?, the idea it didn't need to be named is also not us? When there is no preferential difference perceived between a sensory bliss experience with a flower and getting a flat tire on the freeway while our coffee spills all over the dash board while our partner on the phone tells us they are sleeping with our sibling and best friend and we just lost our job?

In realization, spirituality disappears quite as easily as ego. But then action is a result of identification in un-realized life, as opposed to understanding our true position in life. So action, relationship, experience does change.

I was wondering before about why dreams often produced agitation, even when the waking day was without conflict, then I realized to prefer peace over conflict was to be still lost in ego. The now can be a peaceful garden and bliss, or a person in my face yelling at me.... what difference does it make to "me?" the real me?

A person quietly sweeping up the litter in a opera house aisle while the opera goes on has a different perspective of the content than both the singer actors and the audience. The first step is from actor to observer.... the second to the realization the observer too is manufactured...an impostor...

[sentient]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I wanted to respond with some Trudell songs (Listening,Look at us, Living in reality) That talks of the Industrialism and it's slavery.

But I could only settle to respond with "Hozho" by Lyla June. 8:20 min. video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tAo9puhnNs

I will also add this 7:03 min. video on forgiveness by Lyla June also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnBWEBt7nk0

“Once a colonialist – always a colonialist.
Talking about ‘conditioning’ on a subconscious level”.

Expanded …
We all have personal subconscious patterns of the psyche that are also part of a functional collective subconscious patterning or ‘programming’ and it seems that during the first 3 to 5 years of age, a child becomes acquainted to this collective unspoken model of how to orient to reality, which then for the rest of one’s life forms a kind of subconscious "core-belief-system" way of subconscious reality orientation functioning.
Unless of course one learns to question it, see through it like you had done ImthatIm.

And as you have lived in an indigenous collective - you know - that when you are ‘torn away’ of one collective program and another is imposed upon you - confusion reigns when this ‘other program’ makes no sense to you whatsoever and at every turn there is a clash of values:
http://www.convictcreations.com/abor...ges/ecoego.jpg

*

Well, that anger long gone, the shoes of rebellion walk worn out – it is not even a matter of forgiveness anymore, but more like:

"Since I am the Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing !"
(Aleister Crowley)

Heh.

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2E2MOpUeVY

*

[BigJohn]

As a secondary thought, I would ask fellow members to think serious about donating to Spiritual Forums. Our support keeps this place open.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

As a secondary thought, I would ask fellow members to think serious about donating to Spiritual Forums. Our support keeps this place open.

To my knowledge, Lynn said the key matter is participation - not just money, although donations are greatly appreciated.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by janielee

To my knowledge, Lynn said the key matter is participation - not just money, although donations are greatly appreciated.

FWIW she also said at the beginning they didn't have the money to improve the site in ways that might improve participation...

So I think both are nice!

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

FWIW she also said at the beginning they didn't have the money to improve the site in ways that might improve participation...

So I think both are nice!

Ah I see - thanks, FL!

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

What happens when we realize our "spiritual" awareness or "spirits voice" is also not us?, the idea it didn't need to be named is also not us? When there is no preferential difference perceived between a sensory bliss experience with a flower and getting a flat tire on the freeway while our coffee spills all over the dash board while our partner on the phone tells us they are sleeping with our sibling and best friend and we just lost our job?

In realization, spirituality disappears quite as easily as ego. But then action is a result of identification in un-realized life, as opposed to understanding our true position in life. So action, relationship, experience does change.

I was wondering before about why dreams often produced agitation, even when the waking day was without conflict, then I realized to prefer peace over conflict was to be still lost in ego. The now can be a peaceful garden and bliss, or a person in my face yelling at me.... what difference does it make to "me?" the real me?

A person quietly sweeping up the litter in a opera house aisle while the opera goes on has a different perspective of the content than both the singer actors and the audience. The first step is from actor to observer.... the second to the realization the observer too is manufactured...an impostor...

I am only at the level of exploring Divine Love.
In my learning, Love says Peace triumphs over conflict.
Even though both are teachers of Love.
Maybe if there is a level beyond this Divine Love I will clearly
see what you are saying, but for now I am a student of Love.

what difference does it make to "me?" the real me?

I would say the difference would be in the response both are teachers.
Do I act out of fear/ego or out of Being Love?

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I am only at the level of exploring Divine Love.
In my learning, Love says Peace triumphs over conflict.
Even though both are teachers of Love.
Maybe if there is a level beyond this Divine Love I will clearly
see what you are saying, but for now I am a student of Love.


I would say the difference would be in the response both are teachers.
Do I act out of fear/ego or out of Being Love?

I'd say love is the highest level. Some people are naturally loving and kind, humble giving etc. Others, are naturally selfish, prone to anger etc. Most are just a certain mix of such. I'm not sure if that is due to "our level" or just our bodies and brains conditioning, what we went through growing up, or even a result of a combination between our conditioning and brain chemistry. As a reader of Michael Newtons book, Journey Of Souls, there is another possible cause, some bring down less "soul energy" into this life time and body, leaving the majority of energy in the non-physical dimension. The less "soul energy" one brings into the body, the harder time they will have with the animal nature of this animal life and form.

But then whatever the cause of us not being full of divine unconditional love (all the time), and the cause of how unloving we may be at times, it's up to us to find the best way for us to get back to that, to represent that, to embody that, to experience that.

There is no best religion or practice, all can work. All that matters is the love, the path we use or don't use to get there does not matter. I don't think there is a one path fits all. What's good for one may be bad for another.

This reminds me of the different paths described in Hinduism's Yoga. Like Karma yoga is the path of unselfish action. It teaches that a spiritual seeker should act according to dharma, without being attached to the fruits or personal consequences. So like picking a job or life where one unselfishly helps others... that is the Karma Yoga Path.

Then there is bhakti yoga or a path of devotion, that is about worship and surrender, like in the life of a monk or nun who devotes their life to loving god, then gnana yoga, a path of intelligence or intellectually understanding the self, and kriya yoga, which deals with working with energies in the body and in others.

Different paths for different types of people, though we can work out some hybrid form of all of those as well. Little bit of this or that. The right medicine for the right ailment. Also writing about one's path is different from living it, so there is that too. So take what anybody says or writes with a grain of salt, it's what is carried in ones heart moment to moment is all that matters.

I remember in that book on past lives, Journey Of Souls maybe, not sure where I read it, but a person was between lives and going over their past life, and they were explaining how they gave so much money to charities, (they were rich) but the spirit guide said none of that was very important, and pointed out the one day he was late for work and hurrying to their car, and passed a person crying at a bus stop, and stopped to ask them if they were ok... that little act of caring, compassion, love, was worth more than the thousands given to charities.

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

I'd say love is the highest level. Some people are naturally loving and kind, humble giving etc. Others, are naturally selfish, prone to anger etc. Most are just a certain mix of such. I'm not sure if that is due to "our level" or just our bodies and brains conditioning, what we went through growing up, or even a result of a combination between our conditioning and brain chemistry. As a reader of Michael Newtons book, Journey Of Souls, there is another possible cause, some bring down less "soul energy" into this life time and body, leaving the majority of energy in the non-physical dimension. The less "soul energy" one brings into the body, the harder time they will have with the animal nature of this animal life and form.

But then whatever the cause of us not being full of divine unconditional love (all the time), and the cause of how unloving we may be at times, it's up to us to find the best way for us to get back to that, to represent that, to embody that, to experience that.

There is no best religion or practice, all can work. All that matters is the love, the path we use or don't use to get there does not matter. I don't think there is a one path fits all. What's good for one may be bad for another.

This reminds me of the different paths described in Hinduism's Yoga. Like Karma yoga is the path of unselfish action. It teaches that a spiritual seeker should act according to dharma, without being attached to the fruits or personal consequences. So like picking a job or life where one unselfishly helps others... that is the Karma Yoga Path.

Then there is bhakti yoga or a path of devotion, that is about worship and surrender, like in the life of a monk or nun who devotes their life to loving god, then gnana yoga, a path of intelligence or intellectually understanding the self, and kriya yoga, which deals with working with energies in the body and in others.

Different paths for different types of people, though we can work out some hybrid form of all of those as well. Little bit of this or that. The right medicine for the right ailment. Also writing about one's path is different from living it, so there is that too. So take what anybody says or writes with a grain of salt, it's what is carried in ones heart moment to moment is all that matters.

I remember in that book on past lives, Journey Of Souls maybe, not sure where I read it, but a person was between lives and going over their past life, and they were explaining how they gave so much money to charities, (they were rich) but the spirit guide said none of that was very important, and pointed out the one day he was late for work and hurrying to their car, and passed a person crying at a bus stop, and stopped to ask them if they were ok... that little act of caring, compassion, love, was worth more than the thousands given to charities.

Nicely put. Brought some tears to my eyes.
I was born into conflict and grief and violence.
So as far as levels go I like to say:
I was born a worm and am now a frog and one
day I shall fly as an eagle.

Originally Posted by sentient

“Once a colonialist – always a colonialist.
Talking about ‘conditioning’ on a subconscious level”.

Expanded …
We all have personal subconscious patterns of the psyche that are also part of a functional collective subconscious patterning or ‘programming’ and it seems that during the first 3 to 5 years of age, a child becomes acquainted to this collective unspoken model of how to orient to reality, which then for the rest of one’s life forms a kind of subconscious "core-belief-system" way of subconscious reality orientation functioning.
Unless of course one learns to question it, see through it like you had done ImthatIm.

And as you have lived in an indigenous collective - you know - that when you are ‘torn away’ of one collective program and another is imposed upon you - confusion reigns when this ‘other program’ makes no sense to you whatsoever and at every turn there is a clash of values:
http://www.convictcreations.com/abor...ges/ecoego.jpg

*

Well, that anger long gone, the shoes of rebellion walk worn out – it is not even a matter of forgiveness anymore, but more like:

Heh.

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2E2MOpUeVY

*

Oh boy, you Pink Floyded me back to a time I have not thought of in a long time.
Your Aleister Crowley quote also took me back to Ozzy in the same time frame.

Here is a nice video on space and stars that you helped influence on me, by
some of your Sufi videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1lSK-Rxc8Y