People free of suffering

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

Today I took my chainsaw

but it doesn't change me.

I remember one time being told by a woman, after my “deepest dark night of the soul” you can go live on the mountain top’ or stay in the world and create. I chose the world and created. Now I’m thinking, I should have chosen the mountaintop lol

Chainsaw …my father one time was a bit of a chainsaw junky, he loved going out the bush, filling his trailer with a load of wood, using his chainsaw to cut it all up. One time he nearly cut his foot off when he cut through his boot. He didn’t but it was close.

Now in reflection, he was a bit of an escape artist from people and life, he chose many activities he could do alone. He managed people well. He was unashamedly, direct and brutally honest. What you see is what you get type bloke. Had a great sense of humour and was very well read. People loved him, but he didn’t fuss over people at all. I reckon he found a great balance of being in his world, doing things his way.

After reading your people struggles, I have to be grateful for my select few..

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

If you see it that way to which you are entitled then they must have 'a mind out of control'....

I'm not sure what your definition of mind is or what you think it is as far as the "parts" that make up the "me" as we walk around in a body. I tend to be pretty specific in the parts or words used as I conceptualize "me" for myself. I really have no idea what others are talking about when they use the word "mind" in various ways. Do they mean themselves? Conscious awareness? That which is aware? Or are they conceptualizing "mind as something we have and use and not what we are? If they conceptualize "mind" as something we have and use, then that begs the question what are we then? The one who has it and uses it?

Also, if mind is something we have, (and not what we are) then obviously we could also not have it as it is not me, the one who has it. I myself see the word "mind" usually used in pretty non-defined ways to kind of allude to that which thinks or what's in our heads, this "mental" space. Oh you said "they must have a mind out of control" so there you are imagining we have a mind not that we are a mind. How one conceptualizes these words makes a pretty big change in one's understanding I think. Like if one really wants to go deep into it or just talk about things kind of superficially.

The "if I see it that way" it's not really my idea. It's not a subjective belief. It was discovered by scientists who study the brain and thought and cognition etc. On scans scientists isolated the part of the brain where thoughts originate and they found thoughts are produced by the brain before we are conscious of them. That word "before" there is pretty huge and I'm sure most people would be pretty blown away from that discovery if they grasped what it means.

What if we are conscious awareness as an energy form that merges with this body and brain around the time of birth. The brain is a super computer designed to create an idea based "self" or person built around it's structure of memory and thought and emotions and body and so on. A complex system of "learning" structured around pleasure and pain. So really a kind of a robot where we are merged with it and come to believe over time it is "us." We FULLY identify with it as me. Our thoughts in a sense are not really made by us, (conscious awareness) they are produced by the brain, doing billions of calculations a second, but since we are so firmly established in this "person" made by this super computer using thought, memory, emotions etc it has become a familiar "house" in which we experience from and live and project.

I think some people get free of the delusion to greater or lesser degrees. Maybe they talk about it to others or maybe they keep it to themselves.

[Maisy]

It might read better as " thoughts are produced by the brain before we are aware of of them" But then they appear and we think we thought them lol. We are not aware we are repeating something made by something other than us.

"You said that!"
"No I didn't! I said this"
"Neither one of you said any of it! It was your brains!"
"Say's you!"


The time between the brain creating a thought/response and us being aware of it is like nano seconds. Very fast. I was walking with somebody and I said I want to test something. Can I ask you a bunch of questions and you just answer ok? They agreed. I asked some basic stuff they know and there really was no time delay. But then I asked some crazy questions they would not have a "known" answer for and wow some huge delays. The brain was struggling! It reminds me of talking to those AI chat things online. They start asking you questions back when they can't formulate an answer.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Maisy

It might read better as " thoughts are produced by the brain before we are aware of of them"

and then there is the (observable) something that comes before that even starts lol... another one of those things that is hidden by the clouds of our own obsessions....

It is another one of the things anyone could access regardless of socioeconomic status i suppose....

at least if it weren't for the fact that the consensus reality tells us that it isn't possible or that it is beyond our reach or that we should otherwise say 'no' for whatever reason we want to accept for that today.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

he was a bit of an escape artist from people and life, he chose many activities he could do alone.

That how blokes are supposed to be. We can't be 'in the mix' or we lose our power. Women have to navigate socially because they are tied to children at the survival level, so it's a different kind of nature to 'talk about things' and share feelings and so forth, whereas a guy can't do that. These days they tell us we should, but it's not going to work. What we should do is learn how to feel without any need for expression or repression. I think women have a need for expression only due to their part in socialisation, but even for girls, the ability to feel and not express yet not repress is equally important. I just think they'll feel the loneliness more that men would.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

That how blokes are supposed to be. .

He was an only child, he lost his father aged six, so I think he fended for himself early on. I think it was to his advantage for his latter years. He couldn’t depend on a male to guide him and his mother had to survive by working and earning the income. So he would have navigated life through his own eyes early on. I think those kind of trial and error ( without too much interference) ways of living would have allowed him a greater degree of full expression and understanding of himself in the world around others.

I think you’re right, re the expression factor of males and females. I know early in my process of opening and letting go, it was imperative and I felt it was important to get stuff up and out. Sort myself out, out loud in all manner of ways of being a female. I don’t need it so much now, yet a great deal of woman around me do. I tend to bring them back to feeling, let go of the story and move on. It’s easy for myself to do this and I’m always reminded of the struggle to get there.

I suppose also in my fathers independence and ability to remain true to himself, my mother had nowhere to go but back within herself. I saw this frequently, mainly because my father never allowed her to infiltrate his world with her stuff. So she was moved back into the feeling body, to feel and let go. In many ways, in his ways, he did her a deep favour. As you know I grew up with six brothers so that theme you’re expressing in your post rings true. My mothers need as a female and my needs as the daughter were entirely different to the boys. In saying this, it gave me a good standing to find that balance in dealing with my own stuff, alone, more consistently, plus understand eventually, those differences. One brother is particularly sensitive, so he still to this day, needs to express a lot of his feelings and thoughts out loud. In saying that, he is an extrovert with a very strong mars essence and his early childhood disadvantages did leave him with a need to be heard.

Yes I’m in your side re, learn to feel without expression or repression. This can be people’s biggest conundrum and not always easy to fully get that important gem if wisdom.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I suppose also in my fathers independence and ability to remain true to himself, my mother had nowhere to go but back within herself. I saw this frequently, mainly because my father never allowed her to infiltrate his world with her stuff. So she was moved back into the feeling body, to feel and let go. In many ways, in his ways, he did her a deep favour. As you know I grew up with six brothers so that theme you’re expressing in your post rings true. My mothers need as a female and my needs as the daughter were entirely different to the boys. In saying this, it gave me a good standing to find that balance in dealing with my own stuff, alone, more consistently, plus understand eventually, those differences. One brother is particularly sensitive, so he still to this day, needs to express a lot of his feelings and thoughts out loud. In saying that, he is an extrovert with a very strong mars essence and his early childhood disadvantages did leave him with a need to be heard.

Yes I’m in your side re, learn to feel without expression or repression. This can be people’s biggest conundrum and not always easy to fully get that important gem if wisdom.

Your parents had a good balance, because if the women 'infiltrate', the men lose their superpower. It's probably frustrating for women that men don't 'let them in', but on the other hand a soft emotionally supportive guy is kinda yuk, and don't you wish that wet blanket would man up a bit? hahaha.

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

and then there is the (observable) something that comes before that even starts lol...

Yes those little cognitive precursors which have probably been simmering somewhere in there for a while

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

Your parents had a good balance, because if the women 'infiltrate', the men lose their superpower. It's probably frustrating for women that men don't 'let them in', but on the other hand a soft emotionally supportive guy is kinda yuk, and don't you wish that wet blanket would man up a bit? hahaha.

They did indeed. I think for me the spiritual process has gifted me with the awareness that roles and stories, old systems and dynamics in families, do and can change as you let go of all those things. In undoing myself, I don’t rely on the male to be anything but himself. If I sense the truth of himself, is being ignored or projected at me, I’m one to do as my father did. Lol. The thing with honouring yourself more truthfully, whether male or female, you realise, authenticity only seeks the truth for itself and the truth is what sets you free. So for me, it’s like ‘I’m ok’ so get yourself ok and we’ll be ok together.. lol.

Ive had plenty of intercessions where my insight has told me to ‘suck it up princess’. I didn’t like it, but it’s served me well to move on faster. I see how easily one can stay stuck in deeper suffering thinking there is no more beyond that point. But those terms like ‘man up’ or suck it up’ actually do serve you to keep going. Well it did for me. So they have their place..:)

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

They did indeed. authenticity only seeks the truth for itself

TBH, my family upbringing wasn't great and it gradually got worse and worse over time, because I think my dad was slowly losing his mind, and my mum took off because he was so disingenuous and sly. He did his best with what he had, and I couldn't do any better myself. I don't have kids, but if I did, I'd have been a terrible parent, too. It's just that he wasn't stable, he was delusional, and because he believed his own bulldust, he was very manipulative and twisted us boys into it (my mum took my sister). It stirred up a lot of hatred in us boys and his second marriage was literally broken bones abusive. I seriously wanted to knife him for a while, but the whole environment was violent and tense, so that's not so bad in that context. I had to leave before I started killing everyone or getting killed, and the constant stress was getting under my skin, but once out of there, I got over it in a few years and understood it was just him doing his best - so I have no animosity in me at all. He did a bunch of good stuff as well because he really was trying his best. Just that the best he could do wasn't that great because something was wrong with the man. I went to play in rock bands up in Queensland and lived mostly on weed and alcohol, but I wasn't functioning quite right because of PTSD or something. I was pretty psychotic for a while, and as a product of my past, I couldn't have functional relationships when my 'normal' was intoxication and explosive anger. I was also doing my best, but a burnt out car doing its best still can't do very well. Anyway, I muddled through the life path I was destined and eventually ended up here in Sydney near my brothers and sister, sober, and it all it turned out pretty good.

I started out thinking I was going to talk about meditation and how sucking it up is not so forceful but a way of finding determination or resiliance from the centre, because like life, truth is not an easy path, and as a realist, my version of spirituality isn't adorned with robes and garlands, and what you said about authenticity is true - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BzkMvhmP0Pk.