What is non duality?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Matty

I have been wondering what could non duality possibly be. Yet alone that there is some concept of non duality that there is a section devoted to it.

Non duality is oneness or wholeness.

Duality is when one thinks and believes he/she is separate from oneness/wholeness and in some cases is against his/her individual self, physical universe, matter/material, which is oneness/wholeness, thus is a contradiction.

[Matty]

@ewwerrin

To go back a few steps, I was a tad hoping that you would of seen or understand.
That in a way you considered when I stated "sad" towards the concept of Ying-yang when it comes to within others. That the rejection was not negative but instead of a more positive reason. Sadness just as any emotion or feeling isn't negative nor positive but a state of being. The sadness that I spoke of came from a place of Love not despair or anything.
For some people use words with no meaning just like wearing stuff or using symbols with no meaning. Even the word Love can and does get used with no meaning. Words are useless in the grand scale of things. One day a word means "this" next day same word means "that". But the meaning or purpose stays the same no matter what something is called. Just like the "Call a Rose another name" idea that Shakespeare wrote. What we call a rose has no purpose nor concern to the rose. Calling or naming the "rose" whatever we want doesn't change the "rose" or affect's the "rose" in any way.
When I mentioned a state of sadness for others. Especially under the topic inbthat we was speaking off. It should of been seen as a positive thing.
Instead rejection took place then that rejection was projected onto me. Out of an judgment of misunderstanding. Due to sadness can come from a place of Love and can be a beautiful thing. And when such an experience happen's it should be a moment of rejoice bit sadly it usually is meant with projection with intent to inject shame or something similar.
Just like when people are sensitive.
These people should be embraced, encouraged, supported, etc etc. Instead, for the very reason they are "sensitive" is usually because other people or the worldly view tells them it's wrong to care. So instead of learning and accepting how to Love and to be Love. They are taught to be "sensitive" . Yes, it does make me sad and happy at the same time. Makes me happy to see such a beautiful soul and sad to see the way the world is in. As well as a feeling of sadness towards the beautiful soul being weighed down by such worldly views.
If all the things people impose shame upon others, Love is what makes me the sadess or when the Love for ourselves is being extinguished to the point where someone hates who they are.
In short, One day I came across someone who opened his Heart and let it bleed out. And almost everything he was professing. Wasn't even coming from himself. Was mostly implications from others that has been placed in Mind and Heart that was turning into hating himself. And if something like that doesn't make one sad, then I also feel sad for that person. I was fortunate enough to not allow what others implications become my own realizations. Many are not blessed with such

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Yes. Existence itself unbound and without limit. Awareness itself unbound and without limit. Bliss itself unbound and without limit. It can be "touched" in the deepest meditative state where, regardless how much time passes, it seemingly ends just as it begins and time, space and form drop out. One "knows" one existed, was aware and was utterly content even though mind or any other object of awareness wasn't present....

Ok, the pure positive god source consciousness/awareness is indeed unity consciousness.

There is however my curiosity that leads me to wonder about pure existence, that has no awareness of itself. Even elements have sentience. People describe the first dimension as infinite pure beautiful light and sound. But I see that still as 2 dimensional. Energetic. Consciousness. Awareness. Vibrational. Relative. That stems from pure existence. It is like that which rests on this infinite Source. Or the infinite Source actually rests on the pure undefinable existence, which has no awareness of itself. They say all awareness and becoming comes from there. Infinite bliss. But that is the Source, the existence which becomes aware of itself. But behind that, even deeper than Source, is, pure existence. Just existence. No "I" am. No you are. No we are. Just being. Pure being... Existence. And nothing else. No awareness. No vibration. No relativity.

And the funny thing is. This pure existence, just being, is actually as close as one can get to non-existence. Because non-existence, literally does not exist. But this existence, even tho it has no awareness of itself, does exist. That's also the only quality of this existence. It just exists.

And where it becomes aware of itself, that's where infinity comes into being.

But this is as far as I have been capable of finding information regarding this and as far as I am capable of understanding. And basically, since awareness cannot get there, it cannot be experienced. But it's just understood that it is like our indestructable core. Or not even that. Just existence. xD pointless to even talk about it.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Matty

@ewwerrin To go back ... blessed with such

Yeah our emotions are about our own relativity with our own Source. No one can ever understand you or me or anyone as much as Source can. And if you are connected to Source, then you can understand everyone, because Source understands everyone. But if you feel bad and cannot even find a way to connect to your own Source of Being, then nothing and no one can help you. Not even Source. Because Source offers us unconditional love. And infinite intelligence and eternal wisdom. And if we block that or resist that with flawed thoughts, we feel bad.
And sometimes an inspired individual can influence a "discordant" one back into alignment and relief and clarity and well-being. But to rely on that, is never a good idea.
Especially not in this world.
Ofcourse this will change, when people will prioritize God Consciousness Realisation globally in the future, but right now, in this world:
You gotta be with your own Source. Always eternally and infinitely.
If you make any condition more important than your alignment with Source, ur lost. Source loves you Unconditionally. Supports you unconditionally.

This is just what I have learned. And I am limitted and hardened by harsh life. Relatively speaking. And how I use these words. But ofcourse there is experience behind it. So the words may mean completely different things for you.
It is not my intention to be harsh, but if it saves you eternal suffering, why not right? I was treated the same way. And hope the future generations can find more ease. I'm certain they will. Signs are all good.

[Ewwerrin]

@matty

I do agree crying indicates a releasing of resistance. I used to cry unendingly, because I was trying to swallow more than I can allow. It's not healthy to try and destroy the resistance. Release it bit by bit with relief after relief. Otherwise it's like an old tired demented lady who cant focus, trying to become a formula 1 driver. Unnatural and discordant and unnecessery and irrelevant. Take eternity moment by moment in the eternal here and now. And that old lady withdraws consciousness from the physical and comes to full realisation. However that works through the infinite grace of the infinite one and all, as all is one and one is all.

Once we get the foundation, consistently and stable, the rest will follow easy. Naturally, effortlessly, joyfully.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Ultimately there is no extrinsic. It's just an appearance of and within the Intrinsic so they never come together because they are never anything different. Ahamkara "makes" the extrinsic appear real, different. That's the illusion.

Ultimately there is no self to perceive what is intrinsic, extrinsic or not. And the appearance of real or not is how we create our own realities.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It's exactly like within a mundane dream identifying with the dream self and attaining lucidity within the dream is liberation from the dream self. "Knowing" it for what it is and that it is not the real Self. That the dreamer is the real Self.

The unconscious is the dreamer and it's a part of the 'real Self but there is only one self/Self. Distinguishing between self and Self is the Ahamkara at work, because as it distinguishes between extrinsic and intrinsic it also distinguishes between Self and self - Self has more status than self.

Originally Posted by Matty

You seem to be implying that Duality and understanding to be a basic concept and yet preach of advancement and that of beyond Duality. While not understanding the "basic's" one forget's that what they considered was basic was all in all is what's beyond.

I don't imply, I just come right out and say it so any implications are what you have conjured up. That is you creating your reality.

Originally Posted by Matty

The search for understanding is in a way a noble one. When one stands still and believes to know they cease to continue to understand. Once again all the known greats had this Awareness. Even your most high Jung knew this, and wrote it in one of his books in plain simple terminology. Which is good that he keept it simple that time since so many fail to understand him and his Heart of Philosophy.

And I don't understand this?

Originally Posted by Matty

I saw someone's signature quote of Bruce Lee, so I have to add. Just like so many fail to understand Bruce Lee and see a fighter. But the underlining concept in that even Jesus spoke of and later thru Paul's understanding of Jesus also spoke of.

I've been a fan of Bruce Lee since he first appeared in movies, and at the time all I saw was the fighter because at the time, it was all I had access to. Now I have access to the internet and much more information than I had back then. So yes, I can very much appreciate not only his wisdom but the kind of person he was.

Sop since you're talking about people being more than they seem, did you know that Jesus was an Essene (most likely a Nazorean Essene) and had been taught by them from an early age? That's why his teachings don't always make sense to Christians. He also didn't like the God of the Apostles very much either, because their God was not God but a demiurge.

But what underlying concept are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Matty

That's the thing about when one becomes Judgemental. They pass Judgement based upon themselves as apposed to a rational and or logical Judgment. Upon what is being judged.

I myself plainly stated that I wished to understand the purpose or intent of this section of the forum.
If non-duality is actually a belief system I do want to understand it.
So far it seems more of a undertone of a Philosophical way.
For some it's a Worldly view.
For some it's a Spiritual view.
For some it's both and yet neither.

You're very keen at slap that 'judgemental' label on me, aren't you? Can you please point out where I'm being judgemental?

If you want to understand non-duality be my guest, but the real question is what are you really trying to understand? As far as I'm concerned the argument of non-existence is flawed before it even begins, but most people seem to be unaware of what they're actually saying with the use of the term. And I've given you what I think non-duality is, it's not much more than a contradiction in terms. Duality is the creation of false dichotomies and paradoxes of the differentiated consciousness of the Ahamkara/ego.

Originally Posted by Matty

The Negative/Positive idea is Subjective by nature. Was created by nature of Subjectively.

It was created by the Ahamkara/ego, that's it's nature. The Ahamkara/ego is not a dualistic balance, the ego/Ahamkara creates the reality not of positive or negative but accept or reject.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Distinguishing between self and Self is the Ahamkara at work, because as it distinguishes between extrinsic and intrinsic it also distinguishes between Self and self - Self has more status than self.

Of course but those are the tools we have as embodied being and communicating as such. On one level I'm body and mind, including sense of self (Ahamkara; self), engaged in this discussion. On another level I'm Witness (Atman; Self) to all of it and "know" it at the very same time. Granted that Witness perspective isn't always front & center but it is ever-present and available to some degree.

One way I can describe that state of Witness is deep in effortless meditation "witnessing" the observer/meditator. When I talk about the waking equivalent of a lucid dream that's what I'm talking about, however it's intense and firmly front & center, totally overpowering the mundane perspective of the Ahamkara's sense of self. It's an incredibly sublime and profound experience of that deep meditative state and a fully engaged and active mind.

The other thing I'll say is coming out of that experience after several weeks was incredibly difficult for a good half a year and probably took another half a year before coming to a better understanding and reconciliation. If it wasn't for Advaita it probably would have been a much longer and more difficult time. One can find the same story from NDE survivors, how hard it is coming back and reconciling their experience with waking reality. For many it takes years if not decades.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Of course but those are the tools we have as embodied being and communicating as such. On one level I'm body and mind, including sense of self (Ahamkara; self), engaged in this discussion. On another level I'm Witness (Atman; Self) to all of it and "know" it at the very same time. Granted that Witness perspective isn't always front & center but it is ever-present and available to some degree.

Some yonks ago I remember the discussion of the Multi-Dimensional Self and this seems to be what you're talking about, in that we are 'designed' to operate at a few different dimensions of being at the same time. What makes the different is focus and frankly I think that for most people being both Witness and Witnessed at the same time is a sure-fire route to bonkers, because the mind simply isn't 'equipped' to deal with that.

But then, the Witnessed is the Witness.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

One way I can describe that state of Witness is deep in effortless meditation "witnessing" the observer/meditator. When I talk about the waking equivalent of a lucid dream that's what I'm talking about, however it's intense and firmly front & center, totally overpowering the mundane perspective of the Ahamkara's sense of self. It's an incredibly sublime and profound experience of that deep meditative state and a fully engaged and active mind.

Welcome to my world. I wouldn't say it overpowers the Ahamkara's sense of "I am" and it's certainly not mundane, because without a sense of I am you simply wouldn't be able to experience anything at all. The Witness is what is being witnessed within the conscious of the self/Atman, differentiated consciousness is Ahamkara/ego.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The other thing I'll say is coming out of that experience after several weeks was incredibly difficult for a good half a year and probably took another half a year before coming to a better understanding and reconciliation. If it wasn't for Advaita it probably would have been a much longer and more difficult time. One can find the same story from NDE survivors, how hard it is coming back and reconciling their experience with waking reality. For many it takes years if not decades.

That's what it's like being 'me', that's what my reality has been like since I was a child.