Can't Meditate? Is meditation hard?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

and we feel at the nose for specific reasons I gave...

Who are the 'We' that you have mentioned a few times, do you mean Mr G followers ?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky

The nose method is better for you personally and that is why you say there is no better method of breath meditation, others prefer the Teachings of The Buddha in The Anapanasati Sutta which doesn't mention the ' Nose '......

I already explained 3 times that 'in front' is commonly interpreted to mean the nose, front of the face, like a mustache or something like that. You might think it's invalid, and I suspect it's nonsense as well, but there are many proper scholars that claim it's true and many Buddhists who practice breath meditation by feeling at the nose. This the 3rd or 4th time I replied to the point. It's done.

I've listened to a number of monks explain anapana on you tube. Some say feel the nose, some say feel the belly. The sutta doesn't say anything about that, but you have to feel it somewhere because it's the only way to know you are breathing. I explained the advantages of the nose. If you think those reasons makes no sense, then you need an inconsistency or contradiction as grounds to invalidate it.

The long breath short breath passage is fine. I'm not against anything you're saying. If breath is long just know it's long, and if short, let it be short (just know). You can acknowledge a lot of things about the breath, like which nostril it is going through, or is it both at once? Is it steady and smooth or a bit rough? Does it flow easily or is it a bit blocked up? Are you seriously going to claim that we only know if it's long or short because the sutta didn't mention anything else? I agree you know if it's long or short or in the middle - you know how long it is, but there's much, much more to know. If you are going to argue that isn't in the Sutta, I'm going to agree.

I don't disagree with your points or have any argument, so no hard feelings, but you make me feel a little bit uncomfortable so this will be a last time I talk to you, and I'd prefer to be left alone from now on.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't disagree with your points or have any argument, so no hard feelings, but you make me feel a little bit uncomfortable so this will be a last time I talk to you, and I'd prefer to be left alone from now on.

No problems, but I think it's important to make it clear that Mr G’s Teachings on the Anapanasati Sutta (taught by The Buddha) is different, He has obviously altered it and it could confuse people who read The Buddha's Sutta and then the different method used by Mr G....
As I said previously, to each their own, if one way works best for you, use it. I personally use Taoist and Buddhist Meditation but never use Taoist and call it Buddhist

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I prefer walking meditations

I do as well though I think one could focus on anything present while walking like the breath or the sounds of birds or the light on the trees. One time I meditated while sitting on the beach for a very long time and my whole future and life plan was revealed to me. My deepest life desires. What I came here to do.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Maisy

What I came here to do.

Nice. I remember once I was walking along a mountain ridge and suddenly had a realisation, like, 'this is why God made the world'... and I don't even believe in God.

[Gem]

I realise that aspersions can cast doubt on the validity of any speaker, but I'm just some guy on the internet and am not to be believed. Either the reason stacks up or it doesn't. It's only that.

I know it's much easier to forsake discernment and turn to authority, but you have to discern because you are your own guiding light. There is only one thing you can be sure of: if you go by anything other, you will be misled.

It is hard because you feel a bit uncertain but really have to trust yourself. It's critical in terms of virtue because discerning requires you be honest, to take care and not be rash, to have high regard and pay attention.

I started the thread on this simple basis: If the explanation is contradictory, it's worthless. People can discredit it by pointing out the inconsistency and contradiction that makes its worthless. If no inconsistency can be pointed out, the method stands on it's own merit. It doesn't stand because I know things or Buddha said or because nose feeling is commonly practiced by Buddhist monks. It either stands up to your discerning critique, or it fails by contradiction.

It might take a bit of courage to be discard all the authority and religious nonsense we usually lean on to prop up our own views, and instead stand alone with the purity of our own reason, but if not our own reason... It must be someone elses.

I subject every teacher regardless of status to such critique and consider it foolish not to. Likewise, I am wide open to critique, but all I ask is a reasonable critique. Point out the inconsistency, contradiction and exactly where it makes no sense. If, on the other hand, no contradiction can be found, then give a positive critique like, Good work. Your explanation holds water.

Ok, so just letting you know, I'm respectful of discernment (obviously) and recognise you're in charge of your own lives, which is why I take the time to make explanations that enable self-determination. If you don't like it, don't adopt my suggestions. I'm not trying to influence anyone let alone manipulate of force them. I'm clear as day. You're the expert on your own life, and you have to discern for yourself.

I can say, the method I describe as as good as any other breath awareness approach, better than most, up there with the best and I'm pretty confident it does stand on it's own merit.

I was just doing some extra reading, which is rare for me... I'm not much of a reader... but I figured, why not see if there are valuable articles out there. It's a bit of a search because, frankly, most of the discourse is lacking, but if I find anything reasonably consistent and congruent, I'll post a link. However, anything I post has nothing to do with validating what I say. What I say stands on consistency alone, and if I post a link, whatever they say is subject to the same scrutiny.

[Gem]

Always continuing, being clear minded with precise knowing of what to do. Understandably, doubts plague the mind, but returning to reason we know the narrative is consistent and has reason behind it.

Just to recap, the method is feel the breath at the nose like this bloke says https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq-RHgSYVNw. I like this because he is very specific and it is good to know exactly what to do.

Recap the reasons for feeling at the nose. Mainly it is used to hone the mind by trying to feel the subtle aspects of the sensation. At first you just feel something, but as the daily practice goes on you can feel it more clearly, even when the breath is very light, and notice more subtle aspects of the overall feeling. Then you can focus in on some subtler aspect to continue improving sensitivity of perception. This ability to feel the subtle levels is needed when the meditation extends to the 'whole body'.

Other reasons we know. It allows mind/body to relax and let go of some tension, and enhances open peaceful mind.

Lastly, The purification is enabled because we 'stop to look', and as such, activities such as resistance/avoidance also come to a stop.

Note: No breath control, no counting, no visualising, or other volitional generation of thought. The meditation is 'reality' as you are experiencing it. To see it 'as it is' without making it 'as you want it to be'. As minimalist as possible: Feeling the breath at the nose.

If you are one who can't meditate or finds meditation difficult, then this is a precise way to know exactly what to do and why you do it. The why is most important because if you discern for yourself how it makes sense, then you work by your own understanding, by your own inspiration, as opposed to following along in obedience to a supposed spiritual teacher. It's OK to hear something somewhere, but it has to withstand your harshest rational critique. Then it becomes, by your rational understanding, a sensible, informed choice of your own making. It needs to be that. Following in obedience is a one way trip down the garden path. Think of what Marley meant by "Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves..."

I hope when reading that you get a sense of 'it's up to you and you alone', and from that perspective, get a slightly serious feeling about being responsible for your own life. I'm just saying, that's where it starts.

[Gem]

Sorry if it is a lot, but what was I saying about you and you alone?

At first it seems like I talk about a simple, effective approach to breath meditation. But then more is involved. Being inspired from within yourself as a function of being alone with your own discernment. How you cast off external influences and trust your own compass. Confidence in yourself. That willingness, trust and hunger for the truth.

It is deep inside if you feel it.

That's how to approach the cushion, with that feeling of resolve. In the mind there is a lot of negativity. I get it worse than most, the negative voice of procrastination, 'I don't feel like it' and all of that. I know that is getting in the way of the power underneath. We know what our ideal life would be, but we don't live it because it's uncomfortable, and the voice 'I can't' is a false cry. Even the voice 'meditation is difficult' is a leading excuse.

When we take to the meditation cushion, the mind is going to be just as negative as it is in normal life, but more amplified to you in the quiet. The meditation is realising the reality of yourself - as you are - and the tendency of 'I can't' and such futile thoughts play havoc in meditation as they do in life, but we just keep feeling the air, determined, deliberate, persistent and undefeatable. The mind soon learns that you are wise to it and not easily fooled.

I say a lot and hope it isn't too much... and it's at least a tiny bit interesting.

[Native spirit]

Please respect each others opinions. We all have our own Beliefs.

Namaste

[Gem]

Like I said, I was reading around, and so far I have only found very vague things. People have written whole books on this subject, and it's weird to write so much without good, detailed explanations. Although it isn't critically important where you feel the breath - some prefer the nose, others the belly and so forth. Indeed, a lot is said which is rather devoid of reason.

I just use nose. Why? Because a small area is best for more point like focus, the feeling at the nose is subtle and light and therefore a more nuanced meditation object, and using a small area enables a more detailed perception. I see the reasons why this approach is particularly beneficial, so I can only suggest the nose. Not because 'I like it better', but because of all the reasons.

The other argument is it won't work for some people, but does that makes sense? Anyone can do it because everyone breaths. Things work in a particular way; not in any old way. Anyone who practices feeling the lightest touch that they can will improve sensitivity and be able to feel lighter and lighter touches as time goes on. Of course you need a subtle object to practice that, and breath at the nose is such an object. That will work and anyone who practices with it will develop more sensitive perception over time.

You see how the conventional wisdom doesn't really hold water? You can't meditate on a gross, easy to feel object and hope to develop really sensitive perception. You need a subtle object to become more and more refined. That's the way it works. It's like if you want to be a great archer, you need a tiny target bulls eye. If you use a big circle and aim anywhere on that, it takes no care, requires no skill, so you never develop any refinement of focus or precision. If, on the other hand, you have a point-like bulls eye, you work to refine the skill carefully, more concentrated, exactly, precisely, getting closer and closer to the point, and with such practice your skill becomes extraordinarily refined. That's how it works. Same for everyone.

In meditation also, some things don't work, some approaches work better than others, and some approaches are 'up there with the best'. For the purposes of breath awareness, this one is top notch. Not because I 'I like it better' or because 'this is what works for me', but because of the reasons why it works. That's for you to discern. Not saying it's the one and only thing that works; just saying things work in a particular way.

I would be more vague and accommodating and say, Whatever. Just know you breathe. It doesn't matter - but I don't want to take a big circle to the archery field. I want to bring the one with the small bullseye, because it will work.

I always feel like I talk too much, but I hope I make it interesting. I go to meditation threads and usually don't find much interest, but there's been a couple of beauts in Astral Projection lately, and I really like Human Being's thread on lengthening meditation sessions as well.