The incredible belief in the myth of eternal hell suffering.

Originally Posted by mickiel

You answer my questions, with a question? Why do that? Why not answer what was first asked to you? I am interested in which sins Jesus death does not cover and why?

I don't have a personal relationship with Christ, but I can describe what the bible defines as one.

But why not answer my questions first?

Because I believe that answering the question will answer your question. But only you can know something of the relationship that you have in Jesus Christ through a personal relationship with Him. After all, its your salvation, not mine.

[Internal Queries]

oh well, if the sadistic BIble god is the universal Truth then Destination Hell was a done deal for everyOne not PREDESTINED to believe in the human blood sacrifice of a Nazarene carpenter.

see? ya need the "gift of faith" in order to believe in the "right" religion and ONLY the Bible god can provide you with that soul salvaging gift. if, before he creates you, he decides to withhold it (as apparently he does from most of human population) then you're simply out of luck before you're even born. without that all important "gift of faith" he, by default, created you for the purpose of eventually torturing you for an eternity once your short pathetic life on Earth is over.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Because I believe that answering the question will answer your question. But only you can know something of the relationship that you have in Jesus Christ through a personal relationship with Him. After all, its your salvation, not mine.

Well I don't have a relationship with Christ ; not today. But I like John 1:29, which states that Jesus is the " Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world", I was only curious as to what sins were brought back in order to condemn an unbeliever; and how and why and who took those sins back from Jesus; and why Jesus would give those sins back knowing they would condemn those whom he took responsibility for in the first place?

Originally Posted by mickiel

Well I don't have a relationship with Christ ; not today. But I like John 1:29, which states that Jesus is the " Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world", I was only curious as to what sins were brought back in order to condemn an unbeliever; and how and why and who took those sins back from Jesus; and why Jesus would give those sins back knowing they would condemn those whom he took responsibility for in the first place?

Oh, there's always so much emphasis placed on the bad news and never enough on the good. But keeping with the topic......

Who inquired about the sins of others? It was not I that had said such a thing. Perhaps there's a bit a confusion, in regards to whether a person comes to the judgment still bearing his own sins, whether few or many, he will be condemned to eternal separation from God. "The ungodly shall not stand in judgment" Psalm 1:5. Not to fan the embers of hell, but there will be varying degrees of punishment, graded in accordance with the individuals guilt, as measured by both the amount of light he had received and his response to that light (note Luke 12:47,48).

When the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross, He suffered the judgment of a holy God on our sins. He was not innocent, however, so I disagree with your statement, but righteous. "Therefore, as by the offence of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life" Romans 5:18. Each individual may now say, in effect: "Though I am a wretched sinner in the sight of the infinitely holy Creator, yet the Son of God, Jesus Christ suffered and died in my place. He went to the judgement instead of me, and I receive him with joy and thanksgiving, as my Lord and Saviour, trusting Him to forgive my sins and give me everlasting life."

The judgment is outlined in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15. There's only one thing in life about which a man can be absolutely certain--and that is that he must eventually come before God in judgment. The good news, however, is that believers will not be judged as to salvation on the day of the last judgment, because Christ has already borne their judgment for possible rewards, evidently at a different judgement known as the "the judgment seat of Christ" Romans 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Mickiel, perhaps this explains better than I can:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research14.html

What people call hell is really a spiritual time-out condition in which souls reflect and work out the things that blocked them from the power of their own light. (Dr. PMH A****er)

There is no condemnation in hell, only the outworking of our own misjudgments, mistakes, misalignments, or misappropriations. (Dr. PMH A****er)

The gates of hell are open. Those in hell will eventually join up, link hands, and walk out of hell together. (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

Why do some people have NDEs that resemble the fire and brimstone hell of the Bible while other people describe a different kind of hell? The quick answer is that there are many kinds of hells and many kinds of heavens. A person's situation in life and after death is based upon many factors including: perception, perspective, cultural and religious background, spirituality or lack thereof, and education.

If you examine enough hellish NDEs that resemble the traditional hellfire and brimstone, you will notice that they mostly occur to fundamentalist Christians. Life after death often means "getting what you expect", that is, if you believe heaven is a place where you float on a cloud and play a harp, you just might get that when you die. And only when you realize that this kind of heaven is a fanatasy-to-be-abandoned will you find reality different. In other words, reality is what you make it. This applies on Earth as it is in heaven. If we believe that such a hell exists, it actually does exist - in our own minds. And since the afterlife is the realm of the mind and spirit, these hellish conditions actually exist merely by creating them in our own mind. This is why it is critical that we be careful what we put in our minds and what we build there

Originally Posted by mickiel

I have had many debates with christians on this slander of God as well. I think most of them believe in hell, because they " desire it to be true."

Perhaps your time would be better spent getting the people who publish the bible to retract everything you do not agree with instead of arguing with people about things they choose to believe in.

but first, let me have your conscious imagination first, as I show you what God would have to do, IF there was an eternal punishing hell that he created;

Ah, no, you cannot have my imagination..and you won't be showing me what god would have to do.
All you will be able to do is show me what you belief god would have to do.

In order for physical humans to live forever, God must first give them eternal life.

I'm sure god would be quite capable.

He must give them bodies that can burn, but never combust and burn up. So their bodies must be constructed of a super new kind of skin which will burn and cause them pain, but yet keep renewing itself daily.

I'm sure god would be quite capable.

Of course they must have legs like the incredible Hulk, in order to " Stand for eternity." They must have the ability of " Aqua-man", in order to swim in this lake of fire. Already having skin like " The Human Torch", they must also have a " Super New Mind', that can mentally handle such incredible levels of sheer terror!

I'm sure god would be quite capable.

Yes their minds must be a new creation that is far superior than anything that we have ever known, because any normal human mind would go insane after: What/- 50 years of constant suffering, and thats giving them the benefit of doubt.

I doubt if this god, who would punish people for all eternity, would be bothered if these people went insane or not.

Yes, a super human mind that won't pass out ( we wouldn't want them passing out on us, they must remain conscious for every second of the punishment). Now these new Super Humans will be quite formidable, so God must post powerful Angels there; we wouldn't want any of them getting out, now would we!

I'm sure god would be quite capable of doing all those things as you described but still designed them so they couldn't get out.
But just in case he never thought of that, I hope god is reading your posts for the all important intel.

I can imagine they probally will be quite mad at God for this constant torture, and we may not could reason with these incredible " Super Sufferers."

Imagine away !
In my imagination, I can't, for the life of me, figure out why any group of believers in God would even believe in this nonsense.

but lets examine it anyway.[/quote]

Originally Posted by mickiel

And the incredible belief in eternal suffering hell was derived from the bible by most who believe it. It came to be in the bible from mistranslations from the people who translated the bible from one language to another. And I will be going into that in detail.

As has many other details of the bible. Perhaps all of it.
You pick and choose what you want to believe as truth, just like anyone else.

Originally Posted by mickiel

The REAL biblical message teachs that Christ paied for our sins and we do not face such an incredible punishment.

What incredible punishment?
Oh, you mean hell, this place that doesn't exist.

I like the circular logic of your arguement mickiel...
The is no hell because jesus paid for our sins so we wouldn't go to hell...this hell that doesn't exist.
"so we don't have to face"...face what , if hell doesn't exist?
If hell doesn't exist, if there is no punishment for sins, then jesus wouldn't have to pay for anything.

Originally Posted by mickiel

One of the more serious problems I have with the myth of eternal hell punishing, is the false picture it paints of God...
Teaching that God is Love, and then teaching in the same sermon that he will punish unbelievers throughout all eternity, in my view, is a serious contridiction; and I certainly do not mean to offend those who believe this view of hell. In my view, to punish forever is not Love, its certainly not merciful, and its not forgiving- all the things the bible reveals God to be; Loving, Merciful and forgiving.

then by your reasoning, the translators have huge portions of the old testament wrong too, because in there,
god spends a whole bunch of time ordering the slaughter of many people for example.
I do not see a god of love in the old testament.

Even in the beginning, in the garden of eden with adam and eve, he couldn't even forgive them for their first error.
Instead of forgiveness, what does he do...punishment.
All through the old testament...punishment. Obey or be punished. I see no love there.

Originally Posted by mickiel

One thing I think is worth noting; that being just how many people can be seriously affected by myths, even to the degree that they are believed with the whole heart.

So the seduction of the conscious mind can be a most profound experience that " We really WANT to believe."

You mean like the myth of jesus paying for mankind's sins?
You're in the same boat as the people who believe in a hell, but you simply aren't aware of it.