Is nirvana the end of journey?

[starnight1]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I am so sorry, that was the wrong link.

Here is a link to the The Lankavatara Sutra

@thanks jonesboy,
It's beautiful, i have to read it several times again.
It reminds me of a wonder with my mind for long "Shangri~La", it is a hidden oasis in Hamalayas,for those who r accord with the most highest vibrational beings. Although it may start as a fictional word, Wiki says" In the ancient Tibetan scriptures, existence of seven such places is mentioned as Nghe-Beyul Khembalung.[1] Khembalung is one of several beyuls ("hidden lands" similar to Shangri-La) believed to have been created by Padmasambhava in the 9th century as idyllic, sacred places of refuge for Buddhists during times of strife (Reinhard 1978).
Some scholars believe that the Shangri-La story owes a literary debt to Shambhala, a mythical kingdom in Tibetan Buddhist tradition, which was sought by Eastern and Western explorers"

Shangri~La is same as Shambhala? i v seen a few Shambhala mandala and music, r they describing the same thing and same as the nirvana in the link?

@sky123, have u heard of Shambhala too, how do u think of this?

thanks:)

[sky]

Originally Posted by starnight1

@thanks jonesboy,
It's beautiful, i have to read it several times again.
It reminds me of a wonder with my mind for long "Shangri~La", it is a hidden oasis in Hamalayas,for those who r accord with the most highest vibrational beings. Although it may start as a fictional word, Wiki says" In the ancient Tibetan scriptures, existence of seven such places is mentioned as Nghe-Beyul Khembalung.[1] Khembalung is one of several beyuls ("hidden lands" similar to Shangri-La) believed to have been created by Padmasambhava in the 9th century as idyllic, sacred places of refuge for Buddhists during times of strife (Reinhard 1978).
Some scholars believe that the Shangri-La story owes a literary debt to Shambhala, a mythical kingdom in Tibetan Buddhist tradition, which was sought by Eastern and Western explorers"

Shangri~La is same as Shambhala? i v seen a few Shambhala mandala and music, r they describing the same thing and same as the nirvana in the link?

@sky123, have u heard of Shambhala too, how do u think of this?

thanks:)

Hi starnight, yes I have heard about Shambhala but fairy tales are not my cup of tea

[RyanWind]

The question, is nirvana the end of the journey? is actually backwards. Nirvana is the beginning of the journey. Before nirvana is delusion. It's a focusing of the attention on the minds story and accepting the story as reality. When one begins to wake up, and transcends the version of reality as presented by the mechanical mind, one begins to live. To live as an in control conscious entity.

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by sky123

Hi starnight, yes I have heard about Shambhala but fairy tales are not my cup of tea

Once again, a Buddhist text says we don't need teachers and not to trust them... here's a quote from http://buddhasutra.com/files/lankavatara_sutra.htm jonesboy provided...

As for teachings: there are priests and popular preachers who are given to ritual and ceremony and who are skilled in the various incantations and in the art of eloquence; they should not be honored nor reverently attended upon, for what one gains from them is emotional excitement and worldly enjoyment; it is not the Dharma.

and explains the path is to be on one's own, looking within for truth....

The evil out-flowings...arise from the illusions of the mind and the infatuations of egoism, ...these are purified by study and meditation and that, too, must be attained gradually and not instantaneously. It is like the ‘amra’ fruit that ripens slowly; it is like grass, shrubs, herbs and trees that grow up from the earth gradually. Each must follow the path of study and meditation by himself gradually and with effort,... the purification of the evil out-flowings of the mind are at best slow and gradual, requiring both zeal and patience. Its reward is the gradual understanding of the twofold ego-less-ness and its patience acceptance, and the feet well set on the stages of Bodhisattva-hood.

It's not even about teachers being enlightened or not, about teachers speaking the truth or lies, it's about the fact that you are the door you have to go though. You have to know yourself, to understand yourself, and that means observing yourself. That is what true meditation is. You do it 24/7. If you are listening to some teacher, or reading some book, you are not observing yourself. You are not observing mind, you are letting mind be you. And like the link jonesboy provided states... reaching nirvana is a gradual process. If it ever seems "instant" it's because that person spent many incarnations seeking it, practicing being in the now free of the conceptual mind.

[sky]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Once again, a Buddhist text says we don't need teachers and not to trust them... here's a quote from http://buddhasutra.com/files/lankavatara_sutra.htm jonesboy provided...



and explains the path is to be on one's own, looking within for truth....

Who needs Teachers/Gurus when you have the Buddha himself

[sky]

" It is recognized that there is nothing but what is seen of the mind itself; where, recognizing the nature of the self-mind, one no longer cherishes the dualisms of discrimination; where there is no more thirst nor grasping; where there is no more attachment to external things. But all these descriptions only tell us what is not Nirvana. What is it like? Is it like heaven, or is it non-existence? The answer is not clear, due in large part to the Buddha's aversion to metaphysics and speculation. When,m he was asked such questions, he merely replied that it was "incomprehensible, indescribable, inconceivable, unutterable."



- Vairacchedika 32.


Nirvana....

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

This has twin aspects or purposes: 1) focusing on sentient beings with compassion, and 2) focusing on complete enlightenment with wisdom.
Khenpo Pema Vajra defines bodhichitta as "the wish to attain enlightenment in order to free all other sentient beings from the sufferings of existence and lead them to the unsurpassable bliss of omniscience."[2]
Khenpo Tsöndrü defines the generation of bodhichitta as "a special type of mental consciousness endowed with two aspects, inspired by the cause, longing to bring about the welfare of others, and accompanied by the support, longing to attain complete and perfect awakening."[3]

That reminds me of the early debates in Christianity about what was more important, faith or works. They debated what "proved" a person was a Christian and spiritual, them believing that Jesus was the son of God or them actually being good people who helped others. Faith vs Works. Jesus said something like, by their works they will be known, which basically was saying, if you find a selfless good giving person, they were following what Jesus was teaching even if they never heard of Jesus.

That Buddhism quote states that a person needs to be seeking awakening and basically be into helping others as well at the same time. It's interesting because what these things hint at is both religions had problems with followers who basically were not good people. They joined and followed the religions but were still horrible people who did not treat others well.

You have religious leaders trying to figure out why they have members in their groups who are not good people. They basically came to the conclusion that a person needs to be a good person AND follow their dogma. So those Buddhism teachings state that...well yea you need to be following our religion, seeking enlightenment.... but you have to have a desire to help others as well. Not sure the Christians really ever worked out a solution since you still have a lot of Christians who claim only belief proves that you are a Christian and saved or not.

What's funny about both religions is they ignore the fact a person can be a very spiritual person WITHOUT the dogma at all! There are very "spiritual" people, who are selfless, humble, egoless, giving loving content people, who have no interest in religion or "spiritual" paths. They probably should have debated what the actual value of the dogma was. But then, Zen does address this with the finger and the moon metaphor. The dogma is the finger which only has a use to point towards the goal. There are people, perhaps due to many incarnations of experience, who are moving towards the moon without any desire for fingers.

[jonesboy]

I have found the Buddhist practice of love and compassion is designed to open ones Heart Chakra. Buddhist don't believe in doing energy practices till much later in a persons progression.

An open heart chakra is truly amazing. When it first happens there really isn't anything that can compare to the outpouring of love for others and the pure joy one feels.

I would not call it dogma, I would call it wisdom that leads one to an amazing life.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I have found the Buddhist practice of love and compassion is designed to open ones Heart Chakra. Buddhist don't believe in doing energy practices till much later in a persons progression.

An open heart chakra is truly amazing. When it first happens there really isn't anything that can compare to the outpouring of love for others and the pure joy one feels.

I would not call it dogma, I would call it wisdom that leads one to an amazing life.

Chakras are not part of the Buddha's teachings.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Chakras are not part of the Buddha's teachings.

Yet many traditions utilize techniques that use chakras such as vase breathing, inner fire or dream yoga.

You have again failed to realize that Buddhism isn't just about one guy, that he hasn't been the only Buddha.

Research guru Rinpoche as an example of another Buddha.

All the best.