Can't Meditate? Is meditation hard?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky

I'm referring to the Anapanasati Sutta

There's a word in the Pali version which means something like 'in front' or something. I don't get it myself, but the nostrils are common in Buddhist anapanasati, and that word meaning 'in front' apparently has something to do with it. I have no way of knowing. It could all be nonsense as far as I know.

All I say is, if you discern my logic and reason don't hold up, then abandon it and find something else.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

All I say is, if you discern my logic and reason don't hold up, then abandon it and find something else.

Yes I have already found something else many years ago, Mr G’s teachings are not for me.... There's something for everyone and one size doesn't fit all.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Is it easy for you, BigJohn?
I think it's a lot like going in for a swim...the first minute it's not pleasant,
it's SO darn cold...THEN....Ah, its super great, no one can get you out!

To me..... meditation is a normal 'thing'.

It is like walking....... you really don't need long discussions on how to walk especially when you are a baby.

[Native spirit]

If you are just starting out doing meditation it can be Daunting some have trouble getting anything,the best thing to do is to Persevere you will find your own way.


Namaste

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

To me..... meditation is a normal 'thing'.

Are you saying then...to be clear, it is easy for you to sit for hours
in a thoughtless state, in silence, stillness of mind and body, not moving a muscle?

[BigJohn]

I have done that..... but I prefer walking meditations which might last 8 hours or more.

[Miss Hepburn]

BigJohn ...it's funny how you don't answer me; like politicians to a reporter's question.
Words come out, but they don't ans the question asked.
Ok, I've dropped it.

[Gem]

Maybe there are a few who sit for hours in bliss, but this meditation is your reality as it is experienced by you, not the experience of your guru, Miss Hepburn, me, Buddha or anyone else, so sit up and feel the air for lets just say 45 minutes to an hour or something, and see what it's like for you. I know for the vast majority, just about everyone, it will have a relaxing deepening effect, but there will be some drifting off, discomforts along with some impatience, boredom and general wild mind - just the same as there are discomforts, impatience and wild mind in everyday life.

Don't be turned off because I speak realistically. It's all true-to-life and it has to always be true. Be with what is simply true: 'feels like this', feeling the whole breath, just this in breath, just this out breath, one at a time, one after the other.

When other feelings are felt in the body, don't be distracted. If you start following sensation here, then there - what for? What reason is there? It just means the mind will leap from here to there feeling things that are easy to feel, be lead hither and tither by aversions and desires and entertain fascinations with 'spiritual feelings'.

In this meditation, all feelings are equal by virtue of being impermanent, and we feel at the nose for specific reasons I gave... not because there's fascination with pleasant or unpleasant feelings.

Other pleasant feelings will arise in the body, and they will pass away. Pain will come and go. That's life.

[Gem]

I went on you-tube to listen to famous and respected monks talk about breath meditation. First thing I notice is they all fixated on the anapana sati sutta because that's the central Buddhist discourse on breath meditation. Second thing I notice is, even though they all follow the same text, they each say different things. That means the text is widely interpreted. The last thing I notice is they contradict themselves. That's where I'm like, 'wait, that doesn't make sense'. For example, early on they will say it's not imaginary, but later they will say something like imagine the breath is coming though the pores of the body or through the top off your head. So... it is an imaginary exercise or not? Both? Either? No one knows because it isn't consistent.

In the method I talk about here, don't imagine. Just feel. You know exactly.

The reason is, you could use imagination, intentional thought, like counting, visualising, mantra or something to focus and quieten down the mind, but this meditation doesn't do that because it goes to the cause - not just the symptoms.

When you sit up to feel the air, mind wanders off, chitter chatter, agitations, and all of that. If you generate a dominant thought you can drown it all out and do away with the symptom, but if you have no recourse of imagination, you left to reality: 'this is the kind of mind I have'. No judgment or opinion. It's just true. You know that about yourself. We are trying to find out what is true about ourselves, how we generate our own suffering, and how to resolve it, so we are going to the cause of the symptoms.

When I was in New Guinea everyone caught maleria. The symptoms are feeling cold even when its hot, splitting headache, nausea and high temperature. You could deal with those symptoms with a good dose of Paracetamol and a cool bath, but it won't cure the disease. Similarly, treating the symptoms that disturb meditation with imagination will certainly make you feel much better, but won't root out the cause. You need to take maleria medication to eradicate the cause: the maleria bug itself. Same as you need to root out the underlying cause in meditation, and not just cool down the symptoms.

Some will say, I took a bunch of Asprin and feel much better; that works for me. The next will say I took a cold bath and chicken soup; it works for me, and so on. But those don't work, and those people all died of maleria.

in this meditation we eliminate symptoms by out-rooting the cause, and when push comes to shove, that works the same way for everyone - in natures way. I'm not going to promote ambiguity by entertaining different strokes for different folks when the way it works applies equally to everyone (that doesn't mean 'nose meditation' is the one and only way).

I know the instinct is to kick back, but feeling air the nose is fine. You can feel at the belly or torso or whatever, and many fine teachers suggest that (I'm not sure of their reasons why or if they have any reasons), but the nose method is better for the reasons I described. It will at the very least work for the vast majority of people (near enough everyone), and all things considered, there isn't really a better method of breath meditation.

The temptation is always to add. First it's pure awareness of the real-lived experience... and then you think, oh I should count or add the mantra I paid 500$ for last year, or I should start controlling the breath like that yogi once said. All that is fine and I'm not saying anything against it, but in this meditation it has no place and you will benefit more from not adding on, but taking away. If it can be removed, just remove it, remove it all until there is just pure awareness of reality as you experience it. Just the truth.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

but the nose method is better for the reasons I described. It will at the very least work for the vast majority of people (near enough everyone), and all things considered, there isn't really a better method of breath meditation.

The nose method is better for you personally and that is why you say there is no better method of breath meditation, others prefer the Teachings of The Buddha in The Anapanasati Sutta which doesn't mention the ' Nose '......

" There is the case where a monk, having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building, sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect, and setting mindfulness to the fore. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.

"[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.'[2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, etc:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....118.than.html

To each their own..... I know Mr G teaches it differently to what The Buddha taught and that's fine for those who prefer His way but it is not what The Buddha taught and I personally feel it should be noted so not to confuse people...