Eckhart Tolle

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

Not really. Some quantum theorists interpret the measurement data as implying that observation (measurement) is a facet of field collapse, but as to cause, no one can say. Does observation cause a quantum field collapse, or is an observation a probabilistic collapse in the quantum field? Whatever the case, the probability of a particle being here or there is very consistent, so, analogously, even if the sun appears 'while' being observed, it does so in a very particular way.





The endeavour to find a cause of 'stuff' seems to be an infinite regress.

Agreed...but how does one break through and out of the very deeply conditioned cognitive biases and dissonance which are associated with "finding the cause of stuff" which just leads me down the rabbit hole of insanity?

I am even trying my hand at Acceptance Commitment Therapy and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy to assist me with this, but I am finding that the conditioning is just WAY too deep.

So, what does one do?

You could try some Eckhart Tolle :P

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

You could try some Eckhart Tolle :P

That would also require reading it without any level of understanding...a "catch 22".

I mean, I could say that I have read "The Power of Now" twice..."A New Earth" once...watched his Findhorn Retreat DVD twice...listened to his 4CD set "Living The Liberated Life and Dealing with the Pain Body" twice also..

Maybe someone will come along and go "oh no! you have to keep reading, watching, listening over and over ad nauseum until something 'clicks' or 'resonates' inside you".

I would rather go to a hypnotherapist and try to get them to convince my subconscious mind that there is no ball of fire in the sky called "the Sun" whenever it is a SUNny day...after he convinces my subconscious mind to BELIEVE that Kale juice tastes for all the world like a chocolate milkshake, of course!

In any case...saw this thing a few years ago...about how scientists can shut down beliefs using magnets:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...291.html%3famp

It left me wondering if I could finally get rid of my "Shiva-Jnana" i.e "Gnosis of Consciousness" using magnets? To wipe my brain and turn me into a vegetable, I need to look no further than a strong magnetic induction field...what if I have the belief that it is all "bee ess" and it will never work?

The mind unnecessarily boggles...

[sky]

Originally Posted by ajay00

It is true that Advaita/nonduality has more to do with experiential understanding rather than mere intellectual understanding. Mere intellectual understanding is bound to be deluded and productive of more ignorance.

But advaita/nonduality also have a theoretical framework to it, erring which one is bound to get into deluded confusions.

As Michael Jordan stated, " “You can practice shooting eight hours a day, but if your technique is wrong, then all you become is very good at shooting the wrong way. Get the fundamentals down and the level of everything you do will rise.”



How does nonduality become a belief set, when it is stripped of the conditioned thoughts and emotions that comprise beliefsets !

I was referring to your belief that GL has a deficiency in understanding....

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Dazzer
I think we so often have it all wrong. It is our human love for Source and for others in our lives that is so redeeming, so pure, and so sacred. It is precisely these things which we call attachments which engage us and bind us ("yoke"/yoga, tefillah - referring to a prayer and also to an awakening and thus also a bonding, like the yogi...prayer is communion...it is a labor of awakening the hidden love within the heart until a state of intimate union with the divine is achieved.

I've been taking a Kabbalah course on prayer. I don't do formal prayer much and I have generally only make requests sparingly -- for healing, for well-being, for special needs. Mostly they are for all existence, for their highest good. I didn't feel right about asking at all for most of my life, but there were unspoken prayers and thanks even then, no doubt. Some thanks I can clearly still recall offering as a child.

According to Kabbalah (only partway through the course), the prayers which are most heartfelt and thus desirable are believe it or not requests - -where we bear our heart and are raw, vulnerable, transparent, and honest. Talking is fine too...it's however you need to commune with the Divine. I find talking hard...unless I'm talking to a guide or "someone", so to speak. But it's the heartfelt emotions, the core yearning for communion with the divine, the authentic love we feel for those in our lives, the purity of our grief...these are the most desired things that can be offered to the universe, to the divine.

And yet I so often hear how these are the things that we look down on...or the things we may fear or mistrust within ourselves, either. In fact...this is what remains when all else passes, as Greenslade and Muffin were just saying. It's our humanity and our struggle to right-align with centre and the deepest yearnings of our heart which are most precious to What Is....because our humanity also contains our divinity, even while naturally occluding some of it.

And I think it's the simple humanity and what we value most -- the love of Source and the love of others in our lives who are closest to us -- that has in various ways been omitted from this discussion at times, just as I was mentioning to GS. It's this love that informs and transforms us and all we are and all we do.

So I think there is a balance here that we need to find and honour, just as you're doing.

Peace & blessings
7L

Hey ..

Yer, I rez with what you have said here, I love prayer work and in a similar vein reflecting what you have touched upon where yoga is a practice of bringing or allowing union in it's own way, so is prayer in it's own way . Both entertain the heart energy if done in the right way and that speaks volumes doesn't it .

There is a point that some know where the longing for God or Love or peace, an ending of suffering derives through the attachment to the sufferer and the attachment to that which is beyond suffering .

The longing is intense for those that have experienced it . The grief for lost loved one's is a similar longing through an attachment that's on another level that's all .

Without the longing attachment one would be like a cold slab of concrete not feeling anything .. They say it's better to of loved than not at all and I agree however painful it can be and when you are desolate and in despair the longing for God or what you are is so genuine and intense this is why genuine sufferers can have awakenings and realizations because there is a point when they have suffered enough .

What has brought a peep to this threshold limit is another story, for some their issues were simply created in order to reach that point, for others the issues are karmic based ..

This can complicate matters because certain peeps think how can a peep be ready to realize what they are when they are filled with so much self hate .



x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Yes. Moreover, attachments which are authentically loving (like you and your folks) are not only not bad, they are the best of us and closest to Source. They are the pinnacle of human achievement and the gateway to transformation to the heart-led consciousness. Once living from the awakened heart-led consciousness, you value authentic love and your authentically loving connections only ever more -- never less. Ever more, never less.



True...and it's alright to have attachments as you say, so long as we own those attachments rather than saying we have none. And then ideally, so long as they are right-aligned ;). But you're absolutely right that until we accept that we do all have attachments, we certainly won't be taking ownership for them, now will we? This is perhaps where Tolle is struggling in his own way, just as we all do.

However, there are some of us who are able to say, yes, we have attachments -- and moreover, those which are at the core of our being are good and true. They are the best of our humanity and our divinity, both. It's some of those other attachments which are not at core which may need some work.

Peace & blessings Daz
7L

The whole thing that is overlooked about attachment is that it's not about the money per se . It's about the attachment to it . I have tried to illustrate that even if Tolle gave half of it away to 1000 different charities in a act of kindness, it still reflects an attachment to the money in order to reflect upon what it can potentially do for others .

It's the whole point that people seem to be blinded by .

If you were not attached you wouldn't hold onto so much money and you wouldn't distribute the money in certain ways . All it's doing is illustrating the attachment to the attributes / meaning of money .

Non attachment isn't being able to give 35 Mil or your 70 Mil fortune away ..

Out of sight out of mind is similar (but not the same) as non attachment in the same way that when I am not thinking about my mum I am not grieving her loss .

I can't therefore be attached to the longing if there is nothing in mind of my mum lol ..

These however are simply levels of being conscious and aware in the moment, for as soon as I see her picture I will shed a tear ..

You can't be attached and non attached, turn things on and off like it's been suggested ..

It really has to do with all levels .. this is why when you have 70 mil in the bank and for example you say your not attached to it, it is untrue because similar to my mum, you don't have to consciously think or be aware of it in each moment to not be attached ..

It is why Tolle is spot on about attachments when he speaks about you can't get rid of your attachments they will only fade away when ready when you no longer see yourself in them .

I see a reflection of myself in my mum so I can't give up my attachment to her, nor do I want too . It doesn't have to be money as an attachment it could be for a peep that forms a bond with seeing the sunrise each morning as a ritual ..

I have been trying to get to the heart of what attachment is and means, this is why it's bonkers to say that masters can kill others lol because there is a self reflection there .. and it is so obviously so .




x daz x

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Agreed...but how does one break through and out of the very deeply conditioned cognitive biases and dissonance which are associated with "finding the cause of stuff" which just leads me down the rabbit hole of insanity?

I am even trying my hand at Acceptance Commitment Therapy and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy to assist me with this, but I am finding that the conditioning is just WAY too deep.

So, what does one do?

I liked the quote from the film 'The Peaceful Warrior'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az96Lr2NxPY

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

True...and it's alright to have attachments as you say, so long as we own those attachments rather than saying we have none. And then ideally, so long as they are right-aligned ;). But you're absolutely right that until we accept that we do all have attachments, we certainly won't be taking ownership for them, now will we? This is perhaps where Tolle is struggling in his own way, just as we all do.

However, there are some of us who are able to say, yes, we have attachments -- and moreover, those which are at the core of our being are good and true. They are the best of our humanity and our divinity, both. It's some of those other attachments which are not at core which may need some work.

Peace & blessings Daz
7L

Yepper's it totally alright to have them and impossible to not have them while experiencing life in reflection of self .

This is why I mentioned the 'non functioning' example because there is at this point no dude walking around sniffing the scent of roses, there is no dude standing up teaching other's, there is no dude calculating how much revenue was made on the last retreat lol .

All these instances are self reflected and as Tolle has said where you still see yourself there is the attachment .

You see what can also be a little confusing to some is even when you have realized that there is only what you are or all that is, is Source or God that you walk around the earth in this non self bubble lol .. Well for starters you need a reflection of self to see Self in everything .

It's not everything seeing everything as everything .. it is what you are reflected as everything in your eyes . Your eyes, your perception is self related .. and BOOM!! there is an attachment made through that perception of how 'you' see things ..

Otherwise nuffin would make any sense at all even the realization that everything is God .




x daz x

[sky]

Originally Posted by God-Like

The whole thing that is overlooked about attachment is that it's not about the money per se . It's about the attachment to it . I have tried to illustrate that even if Tolle gave half of it away to 1000 different charities in a act of kindness, it still reflects an attachment to the money in order to reflect upon what it can potentially do for others .

It's the whole point that people seem to be blinded by .

If you were not attached you wouldn't hold onto so much money and you wouldn't distribute the money in certain ways . All it's doing is illustrating the attachment to the meaning of money .

Non attachment isn't being able to give 35 Mil or your 70 Mil fortune away ..

Out of sight out of mind is similar (but not the same) as non attachment in the same way that when I am not thinking about my mum I am not grieving her loss .

I can't therefore be attached to the longing if there is nothing in mind of my mum lol ..

These however are simply levels of being conscious and aware in the moment, for as soon as I see her picture I will shed a tear ..

You can't be attached and non attached, turn things on and off like it's been suggested ..

It really has to do with all levels .. this is why when you have 70 mil in the bank and for example you say your not attached to it, it is untrue because similar to my mum, you don't have to consciously think or be aware of it in each moment to not be attached ..

It is why Tolle is spot on about attachments when he speaks about you can't get rid of your attachments they will only fade away when ready when you no longer see yourself in them .

I see a reflection of myself in my mum so I can't give up my attachment to her, nor do I want too . It doesn't have to be money as an attachment it could be for a peep that forms a bond with seeing the sunrise each morning as a ritual ..

I have been trying to get to the heart of what attachment is and means, this is why it's bonkers to say that masters can kill others lol because there is a self reflection there .. and it is so obviously so .




x daz x

' I have been trying to get to the heart of what attachment is and means '


I think attachments are linked with the idea of happiness. If I don't have....... or I lose....... then I will never be happy or content. I'm referring to material things of course.

Then there's attachments to beliefs and ideas etc: Everyone is wrong and your right is an example but there's a lot more going on If my happiness depends on others agreeing with me then that's attachment.


The essence of philosophy is that a man should so live that his happiness shall depend as little as possible on external things.”
~Epictetus

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

I liked the quote from the film 'The Peaceful Warrior'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az96Lr2NxPY

Thank you for that, but I cannot help or stop trying to make sense of the world...it is an addiction, so what then? How does one break free from the addiction of cognitive association through perception?