Is anyone here familiar with the Baha'i Faith?

Originally Posted by Altair

A lot of mysticism traditions started out by ascetics that deprived themselves of a combination of [1] sleep, [2] social contact, [3] food or adequate nutrition in general. These are known causes of hallucination. Inadequate nutrition, such as lack of cholesterol or B vitamins (needed for the brain) lead to mental decline.

If you say these ascetics are experiencing genuine ''spiritual experiences'' than the same applies to the prisoner locked up in an isolation cell or an anorexic patient.

Interesting how LACK OF HEALTH correlates so often with supposed mysticism in homo sapiens..

Altair,

There is a correlation but probably not in the way you imagine it. Actually IMO it is the loss of ego that PRECEDES the loss of health. There are more than a few ascetics/mystics/gurus whose health has deteriorated to the point that they are need of a caretaker to provide nutrition and care for them. One of the jobs of the ego is to insure our survival.....once the ego is gone there is no impetus to survive. This can be the conflict between pursuing the spiritual life as opposed to the material life. In the extreme spiritual seekers desire to escape the material.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Altair,

There is a correlation but probably not in the way you imagine it. Actually IMO it is the loss of ego that PRECEDES the loss of health. There are more than a few ascetics/mystics/gurus whose health has deteriorated to the point that they are need of a caretaker to provide nutrition and care for them. One of the jobs of the ego is to insure our survival.....once the ego is gone there is no impetus to survive. This can be the conflict between pursuing the spiritual life as opposed to the material life. In the extreme spiritual seekers desire to escape the material.

I think it's all a huge con..
I don't consider lack of health a sign of spiritual growth.

Science tells us that ego deficiency is a contributing factor for anorexia.....

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Science tells us that ego deficiency is a contributing factor for anorexia.....

I think it is for some people but not everyone Mo. There seems to be many different factors which cause eating disorders. I personally know two people who unfortunately suffer from Anorexia and both give very different reason for their illnesses.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Altair

He either had ''experiences'' whilst a skeleton, and otherwise he'd have ''experiences'' while his body could have been already damaged. So you tell me.
Also, what does a ''Middle Path'' between excess and asceticism mean if that means monks eating little meals a day and follow a diet that is inadequate?

What experiences are you referring to ?


The Middle Path is a balanced way of living which obviously wouldn't include an inadequate diet.

[Altair]

Most retreats and monasteries give people inadequate diets, from what I've read. The people who continue to follow such for months, years, even decades will over time starve their own brains and induce so called ''experiences'' that are hallucination. If the Walking Dead mystics are 'realized' then so there's an argument to make for the anorexic patient and the violent, isolated prisoner as well.

Here's an interesting article; https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Perfectionism

Just linking this all back to the Baha'i Faith, its founder went through an ordeal of health decline as well.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Altair

Most retreats and monasteries give people inadequate diets, from what I've read. The people who continue to follow such for months, years, even decades will over time starve their own brains and induce so called ''experiences'' that are hallucination. If the Walking Dead mystics are 'realized' then so there's an argument to make for the anorexic patient and the violent, isolated prisoner as well.

Here's an interesting article; https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Perfectionism

Just linking this all back to the Baha'i Faith, its founder went through an ordeal of health decline as well.

Don't believe everything you read regarding retreats and inadequate food.
The Buddha taught for 45 years which would be impossible if he suffered from bad health due to inadadequate food, same as DHDL a very intelligent man who's studied Astrology and many other Sciences in His lifetime. Matthieu Ricard, Thích Nhất Hạnh and many more who are extremely intelligent Buddhist Monks full of energy and have lived on Diets which you seem to think inadequate. Different People need different amounts of food to stay healthy, there's no ' One fits all '

[Altair]

Originally Posted by sky123

Don't believe everything you read regarding retreats and inadequate food.

I have done a retreat myself. The food was 100% vegan. This is lacking in a number of nutrients, such as vitamin B12, B3, cholesterol and consists of inferior, calcium, iron and protein. It was only for a week, but I reckon if I followed that for a year or even a decade I would have deteriorated like the vegans and I would've induced hallucination due to brain damage. Most monasteries and retreats seem little different. If an entire tradition is based on poor nutrition than I'm not surprised about the common deficiencies there. Majority of Indians for example have a protein and iron deficiency. No wonder you get people ''seeing Krishna'' and ''feeling the vibes'', anorexics and underweight vegans talk about the same stuff.

Originally Posted by sky123

The Buddha taught for 45 years which would be impossible if he suffered from bad health due to inadadequate food, same as DHDL a very intelligent man who's studied Astrology and many other Sciences in His lifetime. Matthieu Ricard, Thích Nhất Hạnh and many more who are extremely intelligent Buddhist Monks full of energy and have lived on Diets which you seem to think inadequate. Different People need different amounts of food to stay healthy, there's no ' One fits all '

You can live for decades with poor health and still teach a topic.

Astrology is not a science.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Altair

I have done a retreat myself. The food was 100% vegan. This is lacking in a number of nutrients, such as vitamin B12, B3, cholesterol and consists of inferior, calcium, iron and protein. It was only for a week, but I reckon if I followed that for a year or even a decade I would have deteriorated like the vegans and I would've induced hallucination due to brain damage. Most monasteries and retreats seem little different. If an entire tradition is based on poor nutrition than I'm not surprised about the common deficiencies there. Majority of Indians for example have a protein and iron deficiency. No wonder you get people ''seeing Krishna'' and ''feeling the vibes'', anorexics and underweight vegans talk about the same stuff.



You can live for decades with poor health and still teach a topic.

Astrology is not a science.

' Most retreats and monasteries give people inadequate diets, from what I've read.'


First you say ' From what you have read ' then you change to having done one yourself

I also have done Retreats, both Christian and Buddhist with plenty of food and not always vegan, you have a choice. Not all Buddhists are Vegetarian...

Some would say Astrology is a Science... But that's irrelevant... Nitpicking is pointless....

[Altair]

Originally Posted by sky123

First you say ' From what you have read ' then you change to having done one yourself

Yes, because it is both. I have checked many online and have looked at the common deficiencies and how they correlate with certain belief systems and the prevalence of the ''mystical experience''. What inspired me to look into it, over half a year ago, was shows on Nat Geo where people got lost in the wilds and starved, and then started tripping. Many spiritual folk induce it deliberately and voluntarily, but the outcome is similar.