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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #61  
Old 08-08-2022, 02:52 AM
SpectralDreamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
in fact the absolute is us and we are the absolute.
We are neither or both, depending on the perspective. Ego/Ahamkara is largely a response to relative/perceptual reality while the (real) self/Atman is Absolute. While the ego/Ahamkara changes - moods, new Spiritual information influencing beliefs - the Self/Atman remains unchanging while encompassing the changes. It's the resolution of the paradoxes. There's a kind of "You have always been here" 'feel' to it.

Spiritually the ego/Ahamkara doesn't exist since it's a 'collection' of 'invented things', and since it's the ego/Ahamkara that gives the self a sense of 'I am' identity the self becomes the 'no thing' of non-Duality.

It's not the processing of thoughts/information, it's the 'collapse' of the ego and its 'contents' into the self. For all practical purposes -"I am hungry and I need to eat" - we need the ego to function so often the state is temporary. However, for me personally there's always the 'feeling' of that state of being remaining. "Chop wood, carry water" I guess.

My question is, "Is consciousness an 'object' of awareness, or is consciousness an 'object' of consciousness?"
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  #62  
Old 08-08-2022, 08:04 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectralDreamer
No relative either. I guess the only way to describe it in the least inadequate words is complete Isness.
Since we appear immersed in a relative reality we use the tools of the relative to have this discussion. The tools of the relative are wholly inadequate but that doesn't mean we don't use them to convey concepts to the best of their abilities. That being the case and broadly speaking there are three conceptual approaches: Dual, non-dual and qualified monism. Just because none of these are truly accurate doesn't mean we don't use them to help point and convey. The other option is silence and since we are having this discussion that's off the table, isn't it?
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  #63  
Old 08-08-2022, 09:47 AM
SpectralDreamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
The tools of the relative are wholly inadequate but that doesn't mean we don't use them to convey concepts to the best of their abilities.
I've never said otherwise. What I was talking about was beyond ego and when you're 'there' there's no discussion.
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  #64  
Old 08-08-2022, 10:33 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectralDreamer
I've never said otherwise. What I was talking about was beyond ego and when you're 'there' there's no discussion.
Non-duality posits we are "there" already else it wouldn't be non-dual as there would be "here" and "there". In other words there is nothing apart from Consciousness and That Thou Art.

A lucid dream is a good analogy as even though it appears there is you, other dream characters, dream scenery, etc... in fact there is only you and you know it.

Last edited by JustASimpleGuy : 08-08-2022 at 12:24 PM.
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  #65  
Old 08-08-2022, 01:42 PM
SpectralDreamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
A lucid dream is a good analogy as even though it appears there is you, other dream characters, dream scenery, etc... in fact there is only you and you know it.
The dream charaters are 'objects' of consciousness created by the unconsciousness to make the conscious aware/conscious of - if I am 'conscious of' something it's an 'object'. So yes, there is only 'you' but there is still an 'I'. I'm not sure if there can be a knowing without an 'I'. Since the dream characters are created by the unconscious are they still 'real'? The dream chatacters and everything that we think we are has come from our unconscious, so are we only as real as the dream characters?

But what happens when there is no 'I'? 'I' is an 'object' of consciousness, 'I' is a thing but in non-Duality "You are not a 'thing'."

If you are not a 'thing' or there is not 'you', then what?
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  #66  
Old 08-08-2022, 04:52 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectralDreamer
If you are not a 'thing' or there is not 'you', then what?
One way to put it is the Shining Light of Pure Knowing. It's what we experience as consciousness or knowing but that's Ahamkara's hijacking of It. It's That which illumines what we perceive as being conscious, of knowing. It's the extraordinary masquerading as the ordinary.

I'm not talking about mind, personality or even the sense of "I Am". I'm talking about That which illumines the knowing of mind, personality and sense of "I Am" along with everything else. If there are no objects, no things, there's still That illumination. That which illumines is not dependent on that which is illumined however that which is illumined is dependent on That which illumines.

What exactly is That? Darned if I know however I do know I am That.
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  #67  
Old 08-08-2022, 05:03 PM
Ewwerrin Ewwerrin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectralDreamer
The...
... then what?
Then the absoluteness remains of your unchanging experience of the unchanging uniqueness of existence and thus also your being and your experience and everything here and now forever.

Which gives your ego an opportunity to recognize that it always is here and now. No matter what. Ego or not. It doesnt affect the uniqueness of existence. That uniqueness is not a thing. It is the quality of existence. As non existence doesnt exist. Existence can only be unique. Never become unique. It can never even become anything. Even further, it can never even BECOME. Existence has never changed. It has always been unique. Not because it is constantly changing. But because uniqueness is its unchanging quality, of unchanging absolute existence, and so we experience its=our uniqueness, not its change. Its uniqueness can never become anything other than what it already is, always has been and always will be. There is nothing but existence. That is why time is also a misunderstanding. It is simply the uniqueness of existence. There is no 12 o clock today that is similar to the 12 o clock of yesterday. Such a thing simply doesnt exist and has never ever existed. Furthermore, TIME DOES NOT EVEN EXIST. To say that it has never never existed is even missing the point still!

It's funny because we need to develop completely new language.

So what does this mean? It simply means, most humans are living in SUCH A COLLOSAL GREAT DECEPTION AND MISUNDERSTANDING! That it almost becomes divine in its massiveness of corruption, to the ego that misunderstands. When in reality, it is so miniscule and insignificant and laughable and unnecessery.

This great world wide deception is as innocent as a baby that does that unintentionally slaps itself, without even knowing that it is doing that. It isnt even aware that it is controlling its own hand. And the same is happening with humanity. We are the one who is in charge of deceiving ourselves. But it can be painful to realise this, atleast a little bit, like the baby crying after slapping itself, falling asleep, taking a break from life, and then waking up and discovering that it has control over the very thing that "victimised" it. "The hand can be in my control! It is possible!..." and then "I am the hand. This hand is me. This hand is who I am. There has never been a seperation." It is simply learning about the truth that has always been.

Same thing with this great deception of humanity. We are literally awakening into our own ability to deceive ourselves, as a collective humanity, and then... We will no longer need to do that. Why? Because we realise that it is us that is deceiving ourselves. Once we truely realise that, then there is no more need to do that, because there is simply no point in doing that. But we do have to come to that realisation first, and that may take a while still. Many will claim that they know what aspect of ourselves is responsible for this or that. Like the baby that may think it is this or that slapping its own face.

Anyway, there truely is nothing special or out of the ordinary going on, except that we constantly exegerate things. To say like, this is unacceptable! When in reality, God may be laughing at all the things we define as unacceptable. Because when you know the truth, it's just funny.

And we are learning that great truth that makes even collective humanity not that big of a deal. We look at car accidents and are horrified by them. When maybe in the big scope of things, we may even appreciate such things and find them enjoyable. Not just for others but ourselves aswell. That perspective is so different and alien to us. We cannot understand it except to say that it exists. As all things do.

And I even think that the collective and its awakening is really completely insignificant in the scope of the absolute eternally and infinitely unchanging uniqueness of existence. Just like the baby doesnt celebrate forever its discovery that it can control its own hand. Just uses it. Eventually. And that action is the celebration.

It's like having a car that you got as a gift you never asked for, maybe unconsciously. And it took you 50 years to discover that you can turn the key. And that the car comes alife when you do that. And at first it startles you so much that you attempt to reverse time itself by undoing what you had just done, by repeating the action in reverse very quickly. And so the engine stops, and you have absolutely no idea, that what is actually happening, is a completely normal thing!

Does that make it dangerous and crazy? Yes. That's where non interference comes into play. Because if there are humans which are so evolved that their very presence can potentially interfere with others... You know.

We humans simply dont know. We have no idea what we're doing. We're still learning. We are literally transcending time and space itself. Expect crazyness! Its completely normal for the situation we are in. Once this is understood, we wont be startled by craziness, we know it is normal.

About the consciousness question, well,... I can only give the paradox resolver of the absolute, but the process to extend this absolute into all of our understanding and seeking of clarity about anything. It's gonna take a while. Better to enjoy the process of it, that way we can also be more consistent, succesful and pave the way for others. To remind others that "why are they there?" well, "because they enjoyed the process of getting there." And the way forward is thus to enjoy the process.

And this absoluteness is like the foundation. So that if we find ourselves too deceived. Simply peel off the irrelevance by taking it back to the absolute. All ideas, take it to the absolute and give it to the absolute and compare it. Is this idea compatible in anyway with the absolute eternally unchanging uniqueness of existence? And if not, are there extensions of the absolute that can be compatible with it, THAT I HAVE ACCES TO? Because they exist! But wether or not I know of them? That is the question... All things have their perfect rightful place. But we dont have to suffer in order to find that. The more you enjoy the journey forward, step by step, in anyway possible. The greater the succes is and will be. But rather is.
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  #68  
Old 08-08-2022, 05:26 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
Then the absoluteness remains of your unchanging experience of the unchanging uniqueness of existence and thus also your being and your experience and everything here and now forever.

The more you enjoy the journey forward, step by step, in anyway possible, the greater the success is and will be. But rather is.
Wow that was some post! Post 67.
Thank you.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #69  
Old 08-08-2022, 07:03 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
Then the absoluteness remains of your unchanging experience of the unchanging uniqueness of existence and thus also your being and your experience and everything here and now forever.
Experience has a unique aspect to it, however there is an aspect that's not unique. What is That?

It's the Fourth or the Silence that follows Om, only the Fourth is without a second and there is only Silence. Anything else is Brahman's Jedi mind trick. LOL!
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  #70  
Old 09-08-2022, 12:34 AM
SpectralDreamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
It's what we experience as consciousness or knowing but that's Ahamkara's hijacking of It.
What we experience is ourselves and that comes from the unconscious, its 'contents' and its processes. For me it's a sense of self rather the ego because it 'feels' like a different 'vibration' of consciousness. Everything we experience is 'filtered' by the ego.

For me there's 'something' beyond I am That. Sometimes it feels as though I'm inside a computer game where 'I' take a third-party perspective of 'myself', at other times there is just consciousness itself, but they're not so common.
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