Does there have to be any meaning or design to it all??

[organic born]

Originally Posted by ian77

The original sin story has an element of truth in it.We descended from a higher realm.
Think of ourselves as an evolving intelligence.Evolving to re-become divine beings.Or put another way;We are beings in another dimension,within and beyond time,dreaming in this human world of life and death.Life after life.We are ruled by our senses and we believe we are just our mortal bodies.
Our bodies die,but We are Immortal.

Well duh..
I've been out of body several times and can comfortably say that clearly we're immortal, and do so without a moments pause. But that's not what we're talking about here. While physical we are learning to operate the equivalent of a submarine. Spiritually speaking we are underwater. We can't step from the sub without special gear and only at certain depths, and even then we're still underwater but at a shallower level. While the manual you're wanting to use, while in this sub, is on flying a single engine airplane. You're wanting to ignore the very premise of being physical by suggesting that being so is somehow a sign of failure. Have you noticed that none of the dials, peddles and gauges in your "airplane manual" simply don't square at all with what it takes to operate a sub with any level of functional proficiency?

[ian77]

Eh..? And there was me thinking we were talking about "meaning" and "design"!
So you have been out of body,have you...?

[organic born]

Originally Posted by ian77

Eh..? And there was me thinking we were talking about "meaning" and "design"!

After roughly 40 years of plowing into this stuff in one way or another I'm quite convinced at this point that determining meaning and design is not available on a universal level 'while we're physical'. We can discern where we're at with each other, in terms of culture and personal interactions, but to view outside this paradigm is essentially a non-starter. When I watch people suggesting that we can "transcend" or "know all" from this current vantage point it really is a presumptuous dream without merit.

Without a body we are much better positioned for such things because we no longer channel our consciousness through the blunt thickness of coarse matter.

So why are we here? I haven't a clue. So I treat this experience as though I'm a tourist in a foreign land. I do know this though. The less we project 'assumption' and 'speculation' onto this process we call 'living' the smoother and more interesting it becomes. Wipe the slate clean of ultimate expectations and the world speaks to us like a mom cooing her child. :)

Originally Posted by ian77

So you have been out of body,have you...?

Yep. :)

[ian77]

I beg to differ.One can communicate with ones Triune Self and access the noetic world of knowledge.Truth is the Conscious Light within.
I have never 'left my body',but I have been guided in my thinking and have received flashes of real knowledge from my higher self.As a result I know the truth about my Self.I know what I am.
You say that without a body we are much better positioned,etc,etc,.....The only way 'We' can be without our physical body is after death of the body.In death there is no new thinking.One cannot find the truth after death and 'out of the body'.
I know why I am here.I know what the universe is.The stars are projected through human nervous systems.All is illusion,even consciousness itself.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by ian77

I beg to differ.One can communicate with ones Triune Self and access the noetic world of knowledge.Truth is the Conscious Light within.
I have never 'left my body',but I have been guided in my thinking and have received flashes of real knowledge from my higher self.As a result I know the truth about my Self.I know what I am.
You say that without a body we are much better positioned,etc,etc,.....The only way 'We' can be without our physical body is after death of the body.In death there is no new thinking.One cannot find the truth after death and 'out of the body'.
I know why I am here.I know what the universe is.The stars are projected through human nervous systems.All is illusion,even consciousness itself.

I'll see your "beg to differ" and raise you by "you haven't a clue as to what's going on either".

I've spent seconds of time with my higher self and I assure you that the brief flashes you mentioned are okay in terms of constructing a mental picture of what's going on intellectually, you may even be getting snippets of snippets as to minor going-ons with your greater soul identity. But to extrapolate upon those to the point where you believe you're in touch with soul-knowing is a great game that our ego plays with us with the intention of serving it's own needs.

Religion and the new age has done a pretty good job of quieting our egos concerns as to the limitations of our egos reach. Our egos were formed by a brain with a short ticker and in so many ways our ego knows this. So this being the case, and as long as you're human the game is essentially right here. You were born into this context to explore what's available. This includes emotion, limitation, hunger, desire, illness, loss, hard won gains, and even a rough semblance of love in relation to co-dependency. You are able to experience things while in this body that is notably unavailable on "the other side". We are "vulnerable" while being human, that's the value of a physical journey.

The more time you spend wanting to "go home" the less value that you are to your soul. Your soul is "already" home, as we speak, do you think for a moment that our soul would be excited over itself?

What we can do is to make ourselves a better channel for experiencing the physical. The better we are at ingesting our surroundings the cleaner we become as a probe. This requires good physical health, an ever-more awareness as to the what's going on with the plants and animals that surround us, and a mind that's less about synthetic speculation and one that's simply present and serves to align with physical rhythms.

If you're wanting to dream synthetic dreams that's your choice. But such dreaming is really much to do about nothing.

[ian77]

The ego is not formed by our brains,and the soul is not home.The soul is the breath and form of the body[and also functions as the sub conscious mind]I do know whats going on.The other day I met a 'shaman',who for a fee will 'put you in touch with your spirit guides'.Some people involved in the so called new age movement are like a dog chasing its tail-never really getting anywhere or learning anything of real value.
The real New Age is about going home;the human race will take a quantum leap in consciousness.In the future people will conquer death.
I don't think I'll waste any more time at this forum.This thread was meant to be about meaning and design,...

[organic born]

Originally Posted by ian77

The ego is not formed by our brains,and the soul is not home.The soul is the breath and form of the body[and also functions as the sub conscious mind]I do know whats going on.The other day I met a 'shaman',who for a fee will 'put you in touch with your spirit guides'.Some people involved in the so called new age movement are like a dog chasing its tail-never really getting anywhere or learning anything of real value.
The real New Age is about going home;the human race will take a quantum leap in consciousness.In the future people will conquer death.
I don't think I'll waste any more time at this forum.This thread was meant to be about meaning and design,...

Everything "will" happen in the future. Why is it when someone wants to sell an idea to everyone else they always choose tomorrow to make their point? You want to talk theory based on things that you've read and yet right here right now is where the magic is always happening! The ego "is" formed by our brains. Science is charting how this occurs through neuro clustering and integrative associations. You can actually change your personality by isolating certain things you don't want and refusing to think about them. Your brain will trim what isn't being reinforced thus removing such thoughts, traits, or personality quirks by the simple act of non-reinforcement. You can also build on imagery in the same way. Once you know how to do it you can construct a process of association in a unique and conscious way. And thus molding the manor in which our ego is expressed.

One can also build a belief structure along the same lines. Your brain will reinforce what you focus on, thus creating the illusion that certain assumptions will have merit over others.

If you put your ego out of reach then you assign it more mystery than necessary. And the soul is not the breath and form of the body, it's the binding consciousness that serves as the underpinning of our being. But then you've never been out-of-body so you're free to imagine as your predilections suggest.

I figure you don't like having your assumptions challenged. Twenty years ago you read a book, you liked it, and you're wanting that imagery to stick. But what if this guy is wrong (at least based on your reporting of his teachings)? So far from what you're saying I suggest that he is.

You've already planned on how things should unfold so far be it for me to intrude. But should you get board with the future and want to live in the present then the simple act of mindfulness will suffice. It's in the present where all living is expressed. The future will take care of itself.

[ian77]

I know I am not by body.I am the Conscious Self in my body.
You say the ego is created by the brain;if this is so,how do you expect people to believe "you",as an ego,can leave your body...?
The ego is the personality created by the body mind.But "YOU" are Feeling and Desire,the CONSCIOUS SELF in your body.You are hypnotized.Life is a hypnotic dream.
I am not saying this because I've read some book.I know these facts.The book just happens to be written by someone else who knew these facts of life.
As for "theories",...flying machines were once a theory,so were rockets to the moon.What I am talking about is knowledge,real knowledge-Self Knowledge.
I do live in the present moment,the present moment is within eternity.
The future will take care of itself-but we can alter our destiny with our thoughts.
To anyone reading this who may be remotely interested in what I'm saying;visit <http://www.thewordfoundation.org>,click on books,then Man and Woman and Child.Go to page 91 "KNOW THYSELF".Then when you've read that,JUDGE FOR YOURSELF.Truth is the Conscious Light within

[organic born]

Originally Posted by ian77

I know I am not by body.I am the Conscious Self in my body.
You say the ego is created by the brain;if this is so,how do you expect people to believe "you",as an ego,can leave your body...?
The ego is the personality created by the body mind.But "YOU" are Feeling and Desire,the CONSCIOUS SELF in your body.You are hypnotized.Life is a hypnotic dream.
I am not saying this because I've read some book.I know these facts.The book just happens to be written by someone else who knew these facts of life.
As for "theories",...flying machines were once a theory,so were rockets to the moon.What I am talking about is knowledge,real knowledge-Self Knowledge.
I do live in the present moment,the present moment is within eternity.
The future will take care of itself-but we can alter our destiny with our thoughts.
To anyone reading this who may be remotely interested in what I'm saying;visit <http://www.thewordfoundation.org>,click on books,then Man and Woman and Child.Go to page 91 "KNOW THYSELF".Then when you've read that,JUDGE FOR YOURSELF.Truth is the Conscious Light within

When I first started reading the book that you pointed to I found it appealing in relation to the older way that I had been using in order to understand our spiritual natures. But as I dug in deeper I realized that this guy is making the mistake of trying to overlay his thinking-self onto that which is unthinkable.

In the last decade modern science has been doing a great job in describing the source of our physical Feelings and Desires as humans responding to both social and biological promptings. Roughly 99% of such is observable as physically limited and biologically directed. The idea that Feelings and Desire are somehow a reflection of our spiritual selves requires a laser like focus on the most thinnest of threads of legitimate soul related promptings.

The idea that we can discern our physical natures via the avenue of Feelings and Desires is demonstrably a non-starter. The actual study of Feelings and Desire in regards our physical experience, both individually and socially, is a wonderful study! It helps illuminate the core motivations that accompany the physical experience. But essentially that's the limit of such undertakings.

As to the machines that you mentioned those are all physical undertakings. To focus in that way in order to achieve physical outcomes is clearly a worthy endeavour. But one walks into a huge field of quicksand and dead ends were we to attempt to equate both Feelings and Desire toward our non-physical format.

We need to be differentiating as to what is physically-stimulated perception and what isn't. So far spiritually, as we've culturally known it for the last couple of thousand years, has been confusing external form for that of inner knowing. I rely on lucid dreaming and my out of body experiences for the kinds of information that's more tactile in relation to our more etheric natures. For you such things would have to be theory until experienced otherwise. You're earlier experiences of lucid dreaming as a toddler would be helpful as a residual knowing. But such things needs to be updated through the years, without such we, almost unavoidably, become consumed by mentalized thinking in regard to all.

[Volaju]

If there was truly a meaning to everything, than I must be pretty ignorant because I don't see half of it each day...

But then, maybe that saying, "Ignorance is Bliss," would tie in here.