Don't do that

[sky]

A. Nourishment of Sloth and Torpor
There arises listlessness, lassitude, lazy stretching of the body, drowsiness after meals, mental sluggishness; frequently giving unwise attention to it — this is the nourishment for the arising of sloth and torpor that have not yet arisen and for the increase and strengthening of sloth and torpor that have already arisen.

— SN 46:51

B. Denourishing of Sloth and Torpor
There is the element of rousing one's energy, the element of exertion, the element of continuous exertion; frequently giving wise attention to it — this is the denourishing of the arising of sloth and torpor that have not yet arisen and of the increase and strengthening of sloth and torpor that have already arisen.

— SN 46:51

https://accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth.../wheel026.html

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Gem ~ well, why be so hard on ourselves? There are highs and there are lows but the ‘trick’ as applicable to me at least, is to differentiate the impulses that contract vs those that expand or at least maintain balance and ‘filter away’ whatever is an obstruction. Of course, this presupposes a mindfulness or awareness continuum.

Metaphorically I liken it to celebrating darkness or even ignorance brought about by the veils of maya or of forgetting, that we may fully feel the winds of duality whilst in trance. If we are always in the oneness sphere of awareness, we will miss out on what limitation offers. It kind of reminds me of that famous quote in the epic film, Lawrence of Arabia, where Peter O’ Toole (the lead actor) lights a match and balances it on his finger till it is extinguished and when someone else tries it, he says it hurts, so what’s the trick? The answer: ‘Of course it hurts. The trick is not to mind that it hurts!’

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ Gem ~ well, why be so hard on ourselves?

I didn't say be hard on ourselves, but now you mention it, generally speaking, people tend to be.

People tend not to be mindful, so I think it's great to suggest consistency and continuity, but the reality is, most people are distracted most of the time, and continuity doesn't even last a minute. Of course I'd suggest commencing with a schedule of daily breath awareness to reduce mental chaos, quieten down a bit, improve attention span and hone the sensitivity of perception in preparation for overall body/mind awareness.

Obstructions are deeply ingrained and involve mental contents and density within the body, usually beyond the individual's ability to handle. It takes a bit of work to become stable enough to take and not become overwhelmed by the purification process... which literally involves not minding that it hurts...

It's a bit more complex because not minding is mental whilst hurting is physical, so ceasing to react mentally (with craving and aversion) to the physical sensations or "anything in the world" is what not minding means. This was covered in post number 24 on sensations... at least superfically... but I want to revisit that again later on a more nuanced level...

[Gem]

I might as well move on to the section on the truth of suffering.

It's not particularly well understood because people want it to be simple, like an answer, when it's really layered and nuanced, like an insight.

The insight comes not from the knowledge of 4NT's, but the experienced realisation of the way in which the 4NT's are true for you. Meditation transforms the the knowledge, 'there is suffering, it has a cause, it can end and there is a way to end it,' into the insight, 'This is suffering, This is the cause, This is the cessation and This is 'the way' that leads to the cessation of suffering' (see post #47).

I just have something distracting me right now, so maybe my sense of distraction from a couple of days ago isn't resolved and I'm being too impatient to move forward. It might be an idea to just revisit post #47 for now if you want (probably worthwhile), and I'll have to come back later to cover the next section about The Truth of Suffering.

[seigo]

Okay and then there is the consideration to what is necessary for every lifetime
example if Job of bible were reincarnated come back from dead

Such as reincarnation is also said in bible, return from dead Malachi 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great

Then im not too sure if for instance Job would need any Suffering in his next lifetime

& as a matter of fact or perceived counterbalance agent WILD Guess he would need to learn compassion and might see very uncaring

i also love how Lord Hanuman .,. the Hindu pantheon Monkey God Had the most precocious love for all and tore his chest open to display the love on his heart as close to pure as earth words can describe

Steely Dan as an music group SEEM Very Buddhist Practicing
and there is possibility of enlightenment there if album or CD Gaucho is plaid a few times while slipping off toward nap or meditation time

Off topic here but figuring ~ All religons combined and taking POSITIVE ASSETS Of Them all and applying them Is such a powerful inoculation to Dread

Does seem sad or sorry to share that Dark nite of soul Does seem Like schizophrenia AS An condition in which people interpret reality abnormally.
with some combination of hallucinations, delusions, and extremely disordered thinking and behavior that impairs daily functioning, and can be disabling.

in some of the most popular FREE INTERNET REIKI Training James Deacon Actually has Reiki level 3 Graduation ~ certificate and it reads along lines of un~medicated schizophrenic .,.

and id share in way that Jersey Boys would tell story of ~ 1 Batta Bing, Batta Boom

Few accomplish this in just one life .,. wild guess here as "Jesus" did

So if we read book Peter R in Souls Journey ~ deep emotions are needed to activate Emotional overdrive enough to pull up and out of grief mode

Same same puts humans on Quest to Search for something better than weve seen so far in this lifetime

as far as me there is zero reason after all Doctors mite declare How Come you are still alive after .,. LOL Plays out like the 101 Dalmatians ~ with ones trying to skin me alive Sorta said similar as metaphor

But our closest Hard line to God as known is dreams and meditations
and our remembered experiences

like i precognition~ed a death of another Close to me it was an sponge bob square pants WITH Teeth Crawling up wall getting on top of wall and falling over wall and then the person in grief mode had an hybrid ~ ~ ~ of that being an Humphrey dumpy EGG Broken

AND The idiot me thought it was her long missing sister ~ like 12 years disappeared BUT No it was her Dear Hubby hind site i shoulda kept my trap ~ Pie hole Shut and 5 days to week later i got announcement to attend her Hubbys funeral

[Gem]

I'm not sure of the relevance but believing in reincarnation, or not believing it doesn't makes any difference, and being in Chrisianity or other religion, or not being in any religion doesn't exclude anyone - not even Buddhists.

I only suggest going to the start of the thread and commencing with breath awareness as described. Then you can discern reality as it is experienced from the imaginary fabrications of mind. Persist in returning attention to the actuality, as awareness of reality makes it harder for mentalities to continue.

Just because you mention mental illnesses like schizophrenia, I have to say, this meditation is not a cure or treatment, and undertaking it could possibly disrupt the care people might already be receiving. People who feel unstable and/or are undergoing therapy can be harmed if they, like, flip out. If the professional says the meditation it's complementary to current treatment and gives the OK, then said professional can monitor things and provide a net of safety.

[In Flux]

Hi Gem, I like the simile with the wood turner, but I cannot find it, do you have a link? (Is it in the original canon? If not, that's also okay, I'm just interested to read more).

PS off-topic, but I just found out about this index, which is neat: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-similes.html#c

[Miss Hepburn]

''So if we read book Peter R in Souls Journey ~ deep emotions are needed to
activate Emotional overdrive enough to pull up and out of grief mode
... puts humans on Quest to Search for something better than we've seen so far in this lifetime...'' - seigo

I agree with Peter R!
Didn't know if you meant The Soul's Journey or Journey of Souls by diff authors, tho

[sky]

Originally Posted by In Flux

Hi Gem, I like the simile with the wood turner, but I cannot find it, do you have a link? (Is it in the original canon? If not, that's also okay, I'm just interested to read more).

In Flux I can help you with this. The words The Buddha used are 'Clever Turner not 'Wood Turner' that's probaby why you can't find it.
It's part of The Sattipathana Sutta,

Just as a clever turner or a turner's apprentice, turning long, understands: 'I turn long'; or turning short, understands: 'I turn short'; just so, indeed, O bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, when he breathes in long, understands: 'I breathe in long'; or, when he breathes out long, understands: 'I breathe out long'; or, when he breathes in short, he understands: 'I breathe in short'; etc:
https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka....010.soma.html

What The Buddha is teaching here refers to the lathe worker who fixes his attention one-pointedly with his Chisel on a single spot while the Spindle is in constant motion. The meditator does the same at the entrance spot/tip of the nose while the breath continuously flows past. There's a lot more to it but you can read the Sutta yourself and find explanations to each part in various place.You mentioned Access to Insight which is a highly respected Theravada Buddhist website, you can always find excellent Buddhist Teachings with explanations, I recommend it.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by In Flux

Hi Gem, I like the simile with the wood turner, https://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-similes.html#c

Interesting. That's a very nice collection.

In my copy, the sutta refers to a 'skillful turner or turner's apprentice', but as far as I know, a turner is one who turns a lathe... so I just say 'wood turner'

The story is in the Satipatthana Sutta near the beginning in the section on respiration. It's a good idea to have a copy of the sutta available, as the thread covers the satipatthana section by section.

Note: there are different translations and scholars are always debating the meaning of phrases that they don't know the meaning of. AccesstoInsight dominates the production of discourse these days, so their translation is pretty much the standard.