Jesus, Siddhartha, and The Higher Self

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Perry J

There are no proofs for anything, but there are only "rules" that work within a defined sphere (assumption). It becomes dangerous when people do not realize that, but insist they have ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE of WHAT IS.

There are certain established facts that are true, an example is the earth is round. Just because people have beliefs think differently, doesn't mean that there are no facts.
Some people might believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't make it flat. It only is in the minds of the deluded.
What is even more dangerous is that post-modern relativism, which leads the door wide open to charlatans, pseudo-sciences, and quacks.

[psychoslice]

Yes to not Know yourself as the Christ is actually being the anti-Christ, this is the mistake that most Christians get them selves into, they shove Jesus up on a pedestal where no one is allow to reach.

The earth is round (or spherical, rather) when we look at it from space, and flat when we stand on its surface. You've heard it said, "Man is the measure of all things." We measure things according to how they appear to us from a specific vantage point, and with the senses and/or instruments at our disposal. Who is to say that, with other senses and/or instruments, and from unsuspected vantage points, one might not conclude that the earth is shaped like a cone, or a merkaba? And who is to say that these other senses and vantage points might not be higher and closer to the truth -- just as we now conclude that the earth regarded from space gives a more accurate picture than the earth when viewed from its surface?

Or perhaps no vantage point is more "true" than another. Each is equally accurate, and equally misleading, with respect to the conditions of its appearance. Even a hallucination is real, and accurate, within the context of its appearance. It is a true representation of what one sees when one is deranged, or whatever. Of course, we assume there's a "normal" state, from which one may become deranged. And with respect to this so-called normal state, we decide what is real and what is hallucination, or distortion. But, really, no two states of consciousness are identical, and sanity -- true sanity -- may ultimately be very far from what most, if not all, human beings experience.

In fact, there may be no sanity, and no ultimately sane view of things. Perspective, by its nature, may be subjective and fragmentary. Any experience of the whole, as such, may be untranslatable into human perception; it may be something which, even when grasped in the highest mystical state, must be let go of, if we are to take our places and our parts as human beings in the great drama and mystery of unfolding life. ("Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.") Perhaps there really is no solution or answer, and if there was, we would not exist. Perhaps we are the ambassadors of God, carving out new paths at the frontiers of Creation, and asking the questions which even God wants answered?

[Perry J]

Valus: Well spoken.
There are levels of consciousness. And there is identity. We identify with what we experience as reality, and that experience is governed by our current level of consciusness.

And all identity - even a false identity - has a survival instinct.

Take for example a drug addict. He has identified himself with a role, that the drugs can give him, and he experiences reality through that role, that filter. The addiction is not the drugs, but rather the strength of the survival instinct of the false identity. Try to convince him of the existence of a "higher state of consciousness", and he will most likely attack you. He will listen to you only when he is fed up with his current life. Jesus was attacked also, because he talked about a "higher state", a kingdom within. Some fishermen leaved their nets and followed him, some did not, they were still addicted to their nets.

And today, we are all addicts, not on drugs maybe, but on some false identity.

At every level of consciousness, what we experience as ABSOLUTE TRUTH exists. Because that is what builds our sense of identity.
That also implies that at every level we think we see the REAL reality - this is especially true for lower levels. The less we know, the more certain we are that we know. Have you seen that?

"No vantage point is more "true" than another".
Well, I would see it like this: We have free will. The universe gives us the experience we want. Or more exactly: The experience we create - out from our state of consciousness. There is no "sin", and punishment for it, but there are consequences. We are responsible for the consequences of what we choose.

We have to look at ourselves. Not at what is outside ourselves.

Good thoughts.

The less we know, the more certain we are that we know. Have you seen that?

Indeed.

We have free will.

Don't get me started on free will, lol.

Okay, too late.

I have to ask you to consider
what place ignorance has in our "free" choices.

Can those who "know not what they do"
really make free choices?

If I drive over the speed-limit,
the consequence is that I may be ticketed...

If I am ignorant of the speed-limit,
I will still suffer the consequence.

But was my choice (to speed) free,
if I didn't know I was speeding?

What do we really mean by "free will"?

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Perry J

And there is identity. We identify with what we experience as reality, and that experience is governed by our current level of consciusness.

Originally Posted by Valus

"No vantage point is more "true" than another".

All nice and sparkling but I'm not buying it.

If someone believed that the moon is made out of cheese, is that person correct? No.
If someone believed that humans evolved out of teapots, is that person correct? No.

Sure, they can believe in it and think it's the truth, but that doesn't make it so. Our beliefs about reality do not make it what it is.

Chrysaetos...
I wish your guidance will gently start lifting you to 5D energies, if it is according to your Divine timing... with your zeal the ascension would be imminent.

[Perry J]

Valus,
We really do have free will. So free, indeed, that it also implies that we have free will NOT to have free will. That's the point. We want leaders, this way or that way.

Ignorance stems from our unwillingness to take full responsibility for our lives. There is always some OTHER to blame, always some authority to trust, who makes the decisions and makes life simpler for us. Within such a hierarchy, "free will" becomes something that appears to be freedom, but is not. It's an illusory free will. There is something outside ourselves, more powerful than we are, that we give power to - by chosing not to take full responsibility over our lives - in other words to be ignorant.

As a child, a very cold winter day, I peed in my pants to warm myself. It felt very comfortable in the beginning, but then things soon became catastrophic. I could not, however, see myself as responsible for the situation but blamed my mother for not giving me warm clothes, and God for giving us this coldness.
An outher authority more powerful than me, was responsible.

I have often thought about this incident. The decision to pee in my pants did not feel right on an intuitive level, but it was easy. I did not take any responibility. The decision to be ignorant is like that. The consequence is restricted freedom.

Perry,

"Freewill and freedom
are opposite sides of a magnet –
opposite poles.

In fact, they are poles apart.”

~ Dr. George King

Chrysaetos,

I realize that sentence can be misleading, when taken out of context; but, if you read it with respect to the sentences which immediately follow it in that paragraph, you should have no difficulty grasping my meaning. The point I was making was all about context, ironically enough.