The incredible belief in the myth of eternal hell suffering.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

Man will always rise to the level at which he places God... He will also give his God expressions and behaviors that he himself has. Think of where the concept of a burning hell really came from and the religions that have made it such an ingrained idea in our minds. The Middle Eastern people were very cruel and dominating at one time... and some still are. They would torture and kill their enemies in the most horrible ways. So naturally, they superimposed this behavior onto God and justify their actions by proclaiming it as holy and right.

If man lives with a warped perception of right and wrong... his God will be warped as well. Some of us are waking up though and letting these false ideas fall to the way side. The organized powers that be don't like us to question their greatest stronghold on the minds of its followers... but the change is happening and will eventually overcome the error.

Quite right - I just dropped those old beliefs February 2010. I remember the
moment!!
What an awakening! It was a high like a drug - a falling away of
the old paradigm!

[Fresco]

Eternal hell is indeed a false doctrine. Look into 'Universalism'.

The only real hell(s) are "Law of Cause and Effect" and the lower astral planes

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Quite right - I just dropped those old beliefs February 2010. I remember the
moment!!
What an awakening! It was a high like a drug - a falling away of
the old paradigm!

Yes, when the ideas that have been put there by other people fall away, it is quite a high feeling. We then begin to experience God with our heart and soul and not through the foggy lens of myth and man made theologies. It almost seems as if organized religion has put a blanket over our consciousness... and when we crawl out from under it and see the blue sky for the first time, nothing can compare or even explain that feeling. Those still under the blanket always cry out and tell us to get back in the dark with them. But we know that for us, there is no going back!!!

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by mattie

[b]

The cherry picking of particular verses as incontrovertible PROOF, while ignoring others as invalid is interesting.

Do you believe in Heaven? The Devil?

Why do you ask? Are you looking to argue? Do you want a fight?

Because I am making a concerted effort to tone myself down and be more reasonable and understanding of others here.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

Yes, when the ideas that have been put there by other people fall away, it is quite a high feeling. We then begin to experience God with our heart and soul and not through the foggy lens of myth and man made theologies. It almost seems as if organized religion has put a blanket over our consciousness... and when we crawl out from under it and see the blue sky for the first time, nothing can compare or even explain that feeling. Those still under the blanket always cry out and tell us to get back in the dark with them. But we know that for us, there is no going back!!!

lol well, the instilled belief in hell sure put a fire under my *** to seek out the Truth. i may not have yet found THE Truth but i know it isn't a sadistic god counting every petty sin so to use it as justification to toss me into his eternal torture chamber.

if nothing else, the search for truth/Truth can be motivated by the desire to extricate one's self from malevolent religious concepts.

hellish beliefs = spiritual goad.

Originally Posted by mickiel

Why do you ask? Are you looking to argue? Do you want a fight?

Because I am making a concerted effort to tone myself down and be more reasonable and understanding of others here.

And you are doing excellently Mickiel,keep it up

[mickiel]

One thing I think is worth noting; that being just how many people can be seriously affected by myths, even to the degree that they are believed with the whole heart. And this is one point that many Atheist pound on, considering God and gods a myth. That we can actually be convinced that something is true, which really is not true.

As a young man I discovered that I could " Easily deceive certain women." And I went about making an " Art of it." The sauve blend of seduction and deception, dressed in an aluring package. I think back on how so many of the women " Just went for it, and believed it, or just longed for it to be real and true." I didnot know what I was doing, but I did it because of lust. And it took " A higher level of ladys called " Women" to help bring me out of this behavior. But I can't count the amount of women I had hurt over the years.

So the seduction of the conscious mind can be a most profound experience that " We really WANT to believe." Thats why I think many believers in eternal hell suffering, strangely just " Desire it to be true." They want evil people to suffer and pay for their crimes and evil.

But the punishment does not fit the crime. If I am evil for 80 years, why must I be punished for 57 thousand, 74 million, 22 billion, 45 quadrillion years, and THEN go over it again and again, with no end ever in sight? Is that not overkill?

Why would a righteous God make such a monument out of evil? When he could just " Will it out of existence?"

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by hawkmoth65

And you are doing excellently Mickiel,keep it up

Well thank you, I need to do it. I have been to many sights and argued and had many battles. But I am finding that this site is quite different, more toned down and given to respectful reasoning toward others. I think I lost that over the years, because many sites are actually geared toward it. I can be very stubborn; but I can be reasonable as well. I think I just needed this place to help tone me down, and I am not against that;

Just have not experienced it enough. And I appriciate one of your moderators pulling me aside and making the effort to get through my bull headedness. So I will respond to that and try to do better.

Originally Posted by mickiel

One thing I think is worth noting; that being just how many people can be seriously affected by myths, even to the degree that they are believed with the whole heart. And this is one point that many Atheist pound on, considering God and gods a myth. That we can actually be convinced that something is true, which really is not true.There is always some truth in myths I believe.

As a young man I discovered that I could " Easily deceive certain women." And I went about making an " Art of it." The sauve blend of seduction and deception, dressed in an aluring package. I think back on how so many of the women " Just went for it, and believed it, or just longed for it to be real and true." I didnot know what I was doing, but I did it because of lust. And it took " A higher level of ladys called " Women" to help bring me out of this behavior. But I can't count the amount of women I had hurt over the years.

So the seduction of the conscious mind can be a most profound experience that " We really WANT to believe." Or put to sleep the little voice that warns us? Thats why I think many believers in eternal hell suffering, strangely just " Desire it to be true." They want evil people to suffer and pay for their crimes and evil. I think they will be quite surprised by what they will find after death.

But the punishment does not fit the crime. If I am evil for 80 years, why must I be punished for 57 thousand, 74 million, 22 billion, 45 quadrillion years, and THEN go over it again and again, with no end ever in sight? Is that not overkill? Is that what you have in mind for yourself? It must be for I have never come across a book which listed all crimes and punishments.

Why would a righteous God make such a monument out of evil? Mickiel, you talk 'Christian'. Not God, but people make a monument of what they believe to be evil. Those people usually belong to a religion. When he could just " Will it out of existence?" Christian talk, Mickiel. God is not like a human being. To say this makes it appear that you have little trust in what you see as God. God does not punish. We punish ourselves.

..............

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by Bluegreen

..............

Bluegreen, I have long ago disassociated myself from christianity. But not from christians, my mother is one. And we never allow our disagreements to overshadow our relationship. Most of my family are christian, my mother is an evamgelist. I do not believe in eternal hell punishment; I simply do not. I think God may punish some humans, but his punishment is always corrective and building; NEVER destructive of the human. I consider Gods judgement as merciful and renewing, not avenging or illogical.

No, my belief in God is cool, my belief in universal salvation is growing; my belief in Jesus is cool; but some of his followers beliefs can give me the creeps.