Atheism is a Religion

Originally Posted by Altair

Absolutely, beliefs are a very small part of whom 'we' are, or better said, how we experience our life. Much of what occurs happens in auto mode. Take something like driving. Most of what you do on the road is basically you in 'cruise control', only in a new or rare situation are you actively becoming aware again.

Pretty much, and in the context of 'self awareness' I often wonder how much of Spirituality is autopilot. Or just taking things for granted with no other thought?

Originally Posted by God-Like

You can be anything you like when you give hypotheticals .. but let's just stick to what I said and implied .

And the agenda that one has whether or not there is a genuine support for equality or not will encompass a belief in their agenda .

Tell me how that isn't true .

Can you do that?


x daz x

You're the one that brought this up as a hypothetical in the first place, Dazza. And I can go into all kinds of psychology about agendas - yours included - but the only reply I'm going to get is that they have a self belief and they believe their agendas to be true.

And while we're here, the definition you gave of 'perceive' said nothing about beliefs even though you use the word to be synonymous with beliefs -
"To see, to be aware of, to understand.
To become aware (of) through one of the senses, esp. through sight.
To grasp mentally; take note (of); observe.
To regard or consider; deem.
Perceive is defined as to see, hear or feel something or to have an understanding of something."

Originally Posted by God-Like

You see, I don't need a Jung text book at all . All I need is my self and myself can realise many self aspects that were previously hidden

What part did your cognitive behaviour play at the time, what part did your cognitive dissonance play at the time? How are they affecting your thought processes throughout this conversation?

What is the definition of self - and please don't tell me it's the same as everyone else's - do you hold, what is your definition of the ego and what is the relationship between self and ego?

Originally Posted by God-Like

So I do actually know what I am speaking about and like said I have worked and discovered and healed and realised many things about self and mind and beyond that .

But according to your belief and your belief in Jung you put me into a category where I have no credibility in regards to what I speak about and there are simply beliefs in my head that derive through the unconscious .

With respect Dazza, that's what you believe. I'm not going to try and reply to that any more because you've already trashed my own credibility time and again on this because of what you believe to be true. So if you want to believe that I have a judgemental belief on your credibility then maybe I need to seriously rethink my participation in this conversation.

Originally Posted by God-Like

Your beliefs are created for you in your unconscious .. is what you said . Therefore they are unconscious beliefs .

You implied that Jung did his research whereas my self work simply reflects my unconscious beliefs .

So I wanted to know why myself and other spiritual teachers and masters are tarred with this brush and you and Jung not .

I am still waiting for you to answer .=

Dazza, I've become tired of explaining this to you.

I haven't tarred anyone Dazza, nor have I tarred Spiritual teachers. That is relative to your agenda so please don't level things at me that I haven't said or implied. What I have said is what happens with everybody regardless of who or what they are. So when Spiritual teachers become psychologists then I may agree with them when they talk about psychological subjects, but until then I'm not interested. Being Spiritual and having beliefs doesn't make you or anyone else - Spiritual masters included - experts in psychology.

Originally Posted by God-Like

Give me an example of understandings that Jung acquired that were not acquired through someone else head lol that underwent the same process as my self work and healing?

You see mate, it's all mind and everything is believed in through a belief in what has been concluded .

What are you on about? What has your self work and healing go to do with it? Your self work was based solely on what you believe to be true, nothing else. That's the point of scientific research, that it can be observed/replicated time and again.

You have a belief that what you went through was healing and you have a belief in yourself, and you believe it all to be true. But all of those beliefs are formed by what you become conscious of, what about the aspects of yourself that you don't know about?

Originally Posted by God-Like

You seem to hold a belief in that self work, self healing, self enquiry is somehow less credible because it comes through one's mindful self .

In fact there isn't anything more credible and there's the irony .

That's your belief, Dazza and frankly you're one of the few people that believes that. So go work in mental health for a while then come back and we'll discuss it again.

Originally Posted by God-Like

When Newton realised or understood gravity as the apple fell on his head, the belief in that experience brought forth an understanding of gravity.

The apple didn't fall on his head, that's a myth. Be careful what you base your beliefs on.

Originally Posted by God-Like

It came through his head . Now there is no difference to self enquiring and resolving unconscious issues because it all filters through a belief in you and what certain energies feel and mean to you, or what certain natural laws mean to you etc ..

yes there is a difference and if you knew as much as you're trying to imply you'd know that. Part of scientific research is about going beyond mere beliefs, if it wasn't everyone with an opinion would believe themselves to be be a top-notch scientist, in the same way that so many people believe they're expert psychologists because they've rattled around in their own heads .

Originally Posted by God-Like

This is why you can't get out of this primary belief in oneself, because it reflects in what you believe to understand and perceive about everything else .

According to only you, not according to modern psychology.

Originally Posted by God-Like

It is impossible to bypass this primary belief and nuffin you have said in reply is beyond this primary reflection .

What you mean is that within the limitations of your understanding there is nothing that you have accepted that is beyond what you believe is a primary reflection. That is not a reflection of your beliefs that is a reflection of your cognitive dissonance and your cognitive behaviour. And if you think that your 'research' has more credibility than Jung's, then your cognitive behaviour is very naughty.

Originally Posted by God-Like

Same goes for you and Jung mate, it doesn't matter what the subject at hand is or whether it's Boris the prime minister, Ghandi, Buddha, or Newton .

You have to believe in their foundations and what they relate to and mean, but you for some reason remain firm in that you don't .

That's what you believe. not me.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

My perceptions were verified by my wife, two witnesses in another car and the driver of the truck that caused the accident. They all also gave statements to the police and, apart from the driver giving a different number for the vehicle, all the accounts concurred.

VERIFY make sure or demonstrate that (something) is true, accurate, or justified.

You don't believe in your perception .

To have confirmations and such likes just solidifies that what one perceived is true .

You don't believe in perception to be true mate, you said that, so it doesn't matter if a thousand people say the same thing in regards to what was experienced .

This is what happens when you lay out a premise like you have . You end up boxing yourself in to a corner and you can't get out of it .

The premise was false to begin with .


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

But so does everyone else Slade, you yourself spoke about being limited in not perceiving the moon from a moons perspective, but that's your belief as said and again you don't believe that to be true as a foundation .

This is why all these statements you make do not fall inline with your premise .

It's only your perspective that you are limited and you say that cos you believe that to be true .

You're right in that I stand firm in what I say because it is actual and you haven't said anything that actually doesn't reflect upon a belief you have of yourself .

All our conversations relating to perceiving and experiencing hasn't been answered either . It's impossible to say that you experienced a car accident like said and not believing perceiving the accident .

If you didn't believe in your perception of what happened and to whom it happened too you wouldn't say what you did .

You don't answer how it's possible ..

There's no chance in me making sense of what you say if you don't actually answer my questions of your premise . Your hot on having evidence in order to entertain believing in something else, but likewise you haven't offered me anything other than more beliefs .


x daz x

Dazza, I give up mate.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

You did mention women's rights and equality, otherwise I wouldn't have replied to it. What you didn't mention was the reasons people participate in women's rights, but you're going to tell me it's because people - even the thugs, have a self belief.

I mentioned women's rights to reflect a woman who believed in them .

You changed the goal posts and context .

I didn't need to elaborate any further, there's a woman who's believes in their cause . That's it .

Now can you please just let me know how a woman who believes in women's rights to be equal to mens doesn't have an agenda that's believed in .

Can you do that for me?


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Dazza, I give up mate.

No worries if you do mate, it's not a problem, you see most of my conversations go this way or the thread is closed down because people become insulting.

This would never be the case between you and I and that's what's cool about it .

But you're giving up because of your premise .

You can't get out of it and any way of trying to do so just creates more reflections upon yourself and those reflections are believed in .

This is what happens when peeps want to make out that their reality is a dream, they simply don't actually see things in this way and they don't live by it .

Same goes for you, you can say what you like but when your premise has to reflect real life and one's behaviours one can become unstuck so to speak .

I looked at a few Jung quotes the other day and you're right in that he doesn't see actualities as beliefs per se .. then he goes on to speak about irritants being a reflection upon oneself which I totally agree with ...

but if you don't believe in yourself you can't associates a reflection of irritation to you or that which irritates you .

The thing about teachers and role models they can get worshipped and nothing can be said about them that doesn't ring true ..

That's why Jung and other teachers get elevated and peeps like me just get put in the stupid corner ..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Jung's research involved more than rattling around in his own skull, if it didn't he would have been laughed out of the scientific society he was a part of at the time. Science is not beliefs, all scientific theories/ideas go through rigorous checks and balances to ensure the integrity of what becomes fact. Jung went through that process with his work. I didn't do any research but I was taken through a process that was guided by a mental health professional who was trained in cognitive behaviour therapy. I have since taken up a course in CBT that was built by someone who is recognised as the leader in his field.

.

But what you fail to acknowledge is that Jung and all of his scientific buddies have to entertain the same process of mindfulness .

It doesn't matter if they all nod their heads in agreement while puffing on their cigars and raising a toast with a glass of sherry lol .

You can't study the ego without a belief in it's foundation .

I have asked you to please answer these questions based upon foundations and you don't .

It's key to believe in the foundation of that which you research .

What I have understood and concluded about myself endures the same process.

So basically all you're saying is that because Jung and other's have the same understandings then it makes what they say more plausible and credible .

My unconscious self work isn't believed in by you because I haven't got the support of other's .

Makes no sense to me lol .


x daz x