'ISness"

Greetings..

It's interesting that i point out that i'm not interested in discussing 'detachment' in this thread, that i was using it as an analogy, and people choose to discuss 'detachment' rather than isness, except Chadley of course..

Hi Chadley: 'ISness' is funny stuff.. it's like the space between the actual observation and the thought about what was observed.. in that 'space between' there is just the 'isness' of the experience of observing, the objects of the observation are like colors in a painting.. it's like seeing the ocean from a distant mountain, then as you cover the 'space between' tou see waves and porpoises and boats, and.. then, when you get there, you step into the water and experience what had been a distant obervation.. both 'isnesses', the distant observation and the actual experience of ocean water's wetness, are valid.. and both are 'ocean'.. only the perspective changed..

Be well..

[BlueSky]

...it's like the space between the actual observation and the thought about what was observed...Tzu

Thanks for explaining Isness Tzu. I really like the line above. The thing I noticed is that there was a time, and there still is at times, that I would try to imagine that space and make like I know it and make claim to it.
The reality is that it just IS.
Blessings......James

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..

It's interesting that i point out that i'm not interested in discussing 'detachment' in this thread, that i was using it as an analogy, and people choose to discuss 'detachment' rather than isness, except Chadley of course..

Be well..

Well, I guess I was a little confused then because to me the 'is' is already in the 'isness'.

However, I will have a go. To me 'Isness' is another word for Life or Existence or 'This'.

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..

What i am suggesting, as an exploratory exercise, is, that we ask the poster what their understanding of a word or phrase 'is'.. ask the poster to try to suspend their feelings about the word or phrase, and describe the 'isness' of the subject that we 'feel' compelled to comment about or criticize, or even compliment.. i have been lurking for a while, just watching and occasionally instigating some lively dialogue.. i have noticed that often 'words and phrases' used by one poster, then commented or criticized by another poster, inspires a defensive mechanism by the original poster, and.. that defensiveness interferes with open and honest exploration of the subject..

I don't want to start another discussion on 'detachment', but as an example we might ask another poster, "Would you mind completing the sentence: Detachment is ___________ "? this way, we might find that the 'isness' of someone's understanding is much more coherent with our own understandings than a 'word' or phrase implies..

Anyway, it seems like a worthwhile experiment or exercize..

Be well..

This is a great idea, Tzu. But already I see that the idea was not understood!
Perhaps LISTENING- would be a good idea too. Seems folks rush through posts and miss what is being said. Why not slow down, really read, and listen- then post?

Did anyone listen to that?

Andrew- I just saw Phroggy's avatar and words at the top of the page and for a brief moment I thought he was posting again. I miss that Phrog. If you happen to be reading this Phroggy, thanks again for the role you played here.

Ditto. Big loss.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Lisa

This is a great idea, Tzu. But already I see that the idea was not understood!
Perhaps LISTENING- would be a good idea too. Seems folks rush through posts and miss what is being said. Why not slow down, really read, and listen- then post?

Did anyone listen to that?

I read it. Is that the same thing as listening? Actually forget I asked that, it will only divert from the subject. To get to the main point....

I read Bob's message again there and I still dont really get what he is suggesting. I dont get how to explain the ''Isness'' of a subject and I dont understand what the ''Isness'' of an understanding is. Can you explain it in your words Lisa? Can you explain what Bob is asking us to do?

Hi Andrew.

andrew g- I read it. Is that the same thing as listening?

No.

I read Bob's message again there and I still dont really get what he is suggesting.

What I hear from Tzu is a suggestion that might allow for better and clearer communication. That often one word will mean different things to different people and if we discovered what our understandings of a word or phrase was that we would not get into conflict and defense over the word. And that we might find that actually we agree.

I agree with this. Often posters are misunderstanding what the other is saying or meaning with words or phases.

Tzu- What i am suggesting, as an exploratory exercise, is, that we ask the poster what their understanding of a word or phrase 'is'..

This is the core of his post, to me.

(ask the poster to try to suspend their feelings about the word or phrase,)

I take this as being able to explore it, instead of get emotional and defensive about it.

(and describe the 'isness' of the subject that we 'feel' compelled to comment about or criticize, or even compliment..)

This one I have to leave to Tzu to explain. lol

(i have noticed that often 'words and phrases' used by one poster, then commented or criticized by another poster, inspires a defensive mechanism by the original poster, and.. that defensiveness interferes with open and honest exploration of the subject..)
That's true.

(I don't want to start another discussion on 'detachment', but as an example we might ask another poster,

"Would you mind completing the sentence: Detachment is ___________ "? this way, we might find that the 'isness' of someone's understanding is much more coherent with our own understandings than a 'word' or phrase implies..)
That we might have more in common than the particular word or phrase seems.
That we explore what the word or phrase means to each other- and through this we may discover that we may have similar understandings. That the words and phrases may be hindrances to that which really we agree on.

(You're making me work, Andrew!
I'm rusty in thinking.)

(Anyway, it seems like a worthwhile experiment or exercize..)
He is proposing an experiment or exercize.

I dont get how to explain the ''Isness'' of a subject and I dont understand what the ''Isness'' of an understanding is. Can you explain it in your words Lisa?

I understand this. "The isness of a subject" was not clear to me either. But his post was about more than just this.

The essence of the post was better communication, more clarity, the possibility of agreement where words and phrases and different interpretation of these can stand in the way of recognizing that there can be or is agreement.

Tzu just likes IS. lol
But the gist of his post I feel is what I just wrote.
If I am wrong Tzu, let me know!

Originally Posted by andrew g

I read it. Is that the same thing as listening? Actually forget I asked that, it will only divert from the subject. To get to the main point....

I read Bob's message again there and I still dont really get what he is suggesting. I dont get how to explain the ''Isness'' of a subject and I dont understand what the ''Isness'' of an understanding is. Can you explain it in your words Lisa? Can you explain what Bob is asking us to do?

Did you change your post?
If so, knock it off.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Lisa

Did you change your post?
If so, knock it off.

I changed it to avoid a listening/reading debate which Ive had once too often in the last year!

Thanks for sharing your understanding. And Im glad I got you working hehe. Youve had enough time off hehe.

I agree that the best way of understanding what someone means is by asking for a definition, and that very often we assume that another person's meaning is also our meaning, and we often do this when we want to defend. I think it can also be helpful to tell someone exactly what we dont understand about what has been said, but sometimes there are times when I cant even get clear about what I dont understand! And of course, then we are just given more or different words to get confused about hehe. Meaning is subjective, so at best, we are only ever guessing what someone else means, but then equally, we are perhaps even guessing somewhat as to what we mean ourselves! Fortunately, we all come from the same Source so we share a deep knowingness and intuition, without which we wouldnt even be able to guess what we each mean. Without this knowingness and intuition, we wouldnt even be able to interpret or relate to each other.

I sometimes think of an old NLP presupposition, mainly, that if the response I get suggests that Im not being understood, then I need to change the way Im communicating. I also like the presupposition (which I try and remember when teaching our youngest to spell!) that there are no learning disabilities, just teaching disabilities.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi
Greetings..

What i am suggesting, as an exploratory exercise, is, that we ask the poster what their understanding of a word or phrase 'is'.. ask the poster to try to suspend their feelings about the word or phrase, and describe the 'isness' of the subject that we 'feel' compelled to comment about or criticize, or even compliment.. i have been lurking for a while, just watching and occasionally instigating some lively dialogue.. i have noticed that often 'words and phrases' used by one poster, then commented or criticized by another poster, inspires a defensive mechanism by the original poster, and.. that defensiveness interferes with open and honest exploration of the subject..

I don't want to start another discussion on 'detachment', but as an example we might ask another poster, "Would you mind completing the sentence: Detachment is ___________ "? this way, we might find that the 'isness' of someone's understanding is much more coherent with our own understandings than a 'word' or phrase implies..

Anyway, it seems like a worthwhile experiment or exercize..

Be well..

Hi Tzu,
Trying to hear and understand one another’s understandings or beliefs
is basically sharing experiences and thoughts.
I have done this ……….attempted to get to know where others are coming from and I have succeeded.
There is nothing spiritual about it, it is just one way to interact on a forum like this where we truly are just talking and sharing and getting to know one another.
Some here obviously have other intentions (preach, teach, change, imply, suggest) and I say if it is not my desire to be around such energy than I can always choose my threads and posters accordingly.
My thoughts…….James