Eckhart Tolle

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by God-Like

You only need to look at what I had said and what I had asked at the time of asking .

This is why conversations like this go nowhere fast .

I have asked you to speak of your experiences regarding self and no self in order to relate and understand their differences .

I have asked you to quote me on where I have issues with Tolle and his money .

I have asked you about the I AM that is present .

The list is as long as my arm, just read through what I have said and respectfully asked .

I have answered you in all this. You can go through my previous posts.

Originally Posted by God-Like

You don't seem to understand the nature of self or ego or attachment because all your doing is referencing other dudes and teachers that go about their business killing people and setting up retreats .

I have used Krishna's and Ramana's examples to refute your point that those in awareness does not know how to brush their teeth. Those anchored in the Self can use the mind-body instrument clinically to perform their duties without egoistic emotions of cravings and aversions, and can be efficient doing so.

That you are persistent in your beliefs in spite of my posts shows sophistry, intellectual dishonesty and obvious lack of experiential understanding.

And I am writing this here for those who are genuinely interested in Tolle so that they can profit from his works which is freely available on the internet.

Trauma and addiction expert Gabor Mate himself had stated that he wished he had gone through Tolle's works at a younger age and had not underestimated them when he first came across them.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I'm not going to do the time thing with you again so it's just hello and how are you. By the way, you're non-attachment is.... more cool than any of the words of wisdom I've seen here.

Sometimes it's worth it to feel as though it's not worth it. As Daz has been trying to point out in this thread and nobody wants to listen - we're only human after all. Admitting that and coming to terms with it has been a huge step for me, because often the human side hasn't been sunshine and roses.

I'm attached to my childhood memories Muffin, and even though they weren't the best I'm attached to them too because they've brought me here. I remember seeing a vision of myself as a kid - snotty nose, short trousers and scarred knees, every hair on my head out of harmony. I still Love that kid. They say that if you don't know where you've been you don't know where you're going.

I spent as few years as a working medium and one thing came through loud and clear, that even in Spirit Souls hadn't forgotten some of the things they Loved to do while they were here. One said he missed the garden he Loved so much. While I can appreciate that some find what the Hindu masters said about attachment as sacred, for me it's small things like this that throws it all to the winds.

And sometimes inspiration comes at you from different sources at the same time - you being one of them. Thanks, your dudeness.

I know it throws people off track sometimes, been doing it to long to change now

I'm good thanks, hope the same is for you and your family

One of the reasons I like coming on here, is a chance to see how others view things.

And I should of thanked you early, for the coloring session with the circles, thats more up my alley. Never been much for research.

The center I call the sweet spot, others have their own ideas what it's called and some follow what others say it should be, we are all different and unique.

No different in childhood here, expect I was the black sheep of the family
All that we go thru helps, you may not like it, but as you said," they've brought me here."
One thing sticks out from mine, at five years old I ask, will I still think the same as I do now, when I grow up(ok get older) that answer is yes. The next one from there, I think you have already figured that one out, if not you will.

I can see why he miss the garden, being apart of nature and all it's wonder, I love nothing more than sitting in mine and I live near the center of town, all that fades away, to me this isn't attachment.

That goes both ways, I appreciate seeing it thru your eyes as I do with everyone else I've come across

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I haven't got time to address all your post as I need to get on with my day .

What I am saying is that the weather outside is sunny . That is a fact .

You have a belief in that it is sunny .

Your belief in that it is sunny doesn't make it sunny .

It is sunny regardless of your belief .

You can have a belief in that fact or not, but you will believe what you believe either way .

You have an attachment to what you believe which is entwined within your perception of how you see things .

Teachers, teacher and teachers kill others based upon their beliefs and attachments and how they perceive demons and how they perceive what it is that they are teaching .

It's that straightforward .

All I am hearing is that these individuals are above and beyond all this .



x daz x

If it is sunny outside, yes it is sunny regardless of belief.

This is what I have also been saying all along...that one does not need to have the belief that the sun is shining for it to do so.

Although, the quantum theorists will all posit that the sun is only there because we believe it is there. I have had a hard time wrapping my head around that one.

If I were to go into it, then NOTHING exists without the belief that it does...so if I stopped believing, would everything just stop existing?

Would daz disappear? Would Shivani? Would SF? and what, if anything, would be left in its place?

If you are looking for an agreement, I will agree with you that Enlightened Masters are not beyond belief. Most of them believe in the Gunas (the modes of material nature) they have the belief that many are stuck in either ignorance/suffering and or both and the only way out of that is self-introspection leading to realisation.

Now, just as the sun shines, whether their beliefs are true or not is left up to the discerning individual...all they know is that whatever beliefs they do/not have, it is only true for THEM and seeing as how self-realisation or enlightenment is a totally subjective and PERSONAL experience, what matters to them, is ALL that matters!

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If it is sunny outside, yes it is sunny regardless of belief.

This is what I have also been saying all along...that one does not need to have the belief that the sun is shining for it to do so.

Although, the quantum theorists will all posit that the sun is only there because we believe it is there. I have had a hard time wrapping my head around that one.

If I were to go into it, then NOTHING exists without the belief that it does...so if I stopped believing, would everything just stop existing?

Would daz disappear? Would Shivani? Would SF? and what, if anything, would be left in its place?

If you are looking for an agreement, I will agree with you that Enlightened Masters are not beyond belief. Most of them believe in the Gunas (the modes of material nature) they have the belief that many are stuck in either ignorance/suffering and or both and the only way out of that is self-introspection leading to realisation.

Now, just as the sun shines, whether their beliefs are true or not is left up to the discerning individual...all they know is that whatever beliefs they do/not have, it is only true for THEM and seeing as how self-realisation or enlightenment is a totally subjective and PERSONAL experience, what matters to them, is ALL that matters!

Good, so we are in agreement about the sun can shine regardless of our belief system that either supports that fact or not .

Also, Good in that you believe that masters are not beyond belief .

So the sticky point is perhaps that one who entertains a belief be it Tolle or Ramana or you or I will have an attachment to that belief or not .

If a teacher did not for examples sake have an attachment to his teachings then his teaching could become contradictive on a daily basis .


What I was explaining to you earlier is that you believe that the water pours from the tap and that is a fact .

So each time you want a glass of water you turn on the tap and you don't open the oven instead .

There is therefore an attachment through your belief system and through your perception of how how reality is .

I haven't been saying that you are attached to water in such a way where you could go without for a day and drink cola instead lol, I have been emphasising the nature of attachment through our perception that reflects our beliefs . You see for you to drink cola you would have a belief that cola is a water substitute and it is something that can be consumed and not painted on the walls . Every which way you turn one's perception is entwined with our beliefs and once believed that water is water and cola is cola there is an attachment present in effect . You don't have to think about it, it's built in your perception .

So when a master kills a demon it does reflect his belief and in his perception that also reflects what he believes himself to be and what the demon is and represents .

There cannot be the slaying of the demon without these attributes being present in effect .

There has to be judgement and discernment in order for the master to tell the difference between his wife and a demon and this only happens through self reflection / introspection .

In regards to this quantum stuff where one creates things through belief and that if you look to the floor the sun no longer is, is flawed in so many ways . I have had this convo before to great lengths ..


x daz x

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If it is sunny outside, yes it is sunny regardless of belief.

This is what I have also been saying all along...that one does not need to have the belief that the sun is shining for it to do so.

Although, the quantum theorists will all posit that the sun is only there because we believe it is there. I have had a hard time wrapping my head around that one.

If I were to go into it, then NOTHING exists without the belief that it does...so if I stopped believing, would everything just stop existing?

Would daz disappear? Would Shivani? Would SF? and what, if anything, would be left in its place?

If you are looking for an agreement, I will agree with you that Enlightened Masters are not beyond belief. Most of them believe in the Gunas (the modes of material nature) they have the belief that many are stuck in either ignorance/suffering and or both and the only way out of that is self-introspection leading to realisation.

Now, just as the sun shines, whether their beliefs are true or not is left up to the discerning individual...all they know is that whatever beliefs they do/not have, it is only true for THEM and seeing as how self-realisation or enlightenment is a totally subjective and PERSONAL experience, what matters to them, is ALL that matters!

Good, so we are in agreement about the sun can shine regardless of our belief system that either supports that fact or not .

Also, Good in that you believe that masters are not beyond attaining beliefs .

So the sticky point is perhaps that one who entertains a belief be it Tolle or Ramana or you or I will have an attachment to that belief or not .

If a teacher did not for examples sake have an attachment to his teachings then his teaching could become contradictory on a daily basis even if the same questions were asked in the same context.


What I was explaining to you earlier is that you believe that the water pours from the tap and that is a fact .

So each time you want a glass of water you turn on the tap and you don't open the oven instead .

There is therefore an attachment through your belief system and through your perception of how reality is .

I haven't been saying that you are attached to water in such a way where you could go without for a day and drink cola instead lol, I have been emphasising the nature of attachment through our perception that reflects our beliefs . You see for you to drink cola you would have a belief that cola is a water substitute and it is something that can be consumed and not painted on the walls . Every which way you turn one's perception is entwined with our beliefs and once believed that water is water and cola is cola there is an attachment present in effect . You don't have to think about it, it's built in your perception .

So when a master kills a demon it does reflect his belief and of his perception that also reflects what he believes himself to be and what the demon is and represents .

There cannot be the slaying of the demon without these attributes being present in effect .

There has to be judgement and discernment in order for the master to tell the difference between his wife and a demon and this only happens through self reflection / introspection .

In regards to this quantum stuff where one creates things through belief and that if you look to the floor the sun no longer is, is flawed in so many ways . I have had this convo before to great lengths ..


x daz x

[sky]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Good, so we are in agreement about the sun can shine regardless of our belief system that either supports that fact or not .

Also, Good in that you believe that masters are not beyond attaining beliefs .

So the sticky point is perhaps that one who entertains a belief be it Tolle or Ramana or you or I will have an attachment to that belief or not .

If a teacher did not for examples sake have an attachment to his teachings then his teaching could become contradictive on a daily basis .


What I was explaining to you earlier is that you believe that the water pours from the tap and that is a fact .

So each time you want a glass of water you turn on the tap and you don't open the oven instead .

There is therefore an attachment through your belief system and through your perception of how how reality is .

I haven't been saying that you are attached to water in such a way where you could go without for a day and drink cola instead lol, I have been emphasising the nature of attachment through our perception that reflects our beliefs . You see for you to drink cola you would have a belief that cola is a water substitute and it is something that can be consumed and not painted on the walls . Every which way you turn one's perception is entwined with our beliefs and once believed that water is water and cola is cola there is an attachment present in effect . You don't have to think about it, it's built in your perception .

So when a master kills a demon it does reflect his belief and of his perception that also reflects what he believes himself to be and what the demon is and represents .

There cannot be the slaying of the demon without these attributes being present in effect .

There has to be judgement and discernment in order for the master to tell the difference between his wife and a demon and this only happens through self reflection / introspection .

In regards to this quantum stuff where one creates things through belief and that if you look to the floor the sun no longer is, is flawed in so many ways . I have had this convo before to great lengths ..


x daz x

What happens if the water is suddenly turned off without you being informed Your beliefs will take a bit of a shaking....

Originally Posted by ajay00

I have answered you in all this. You can go through my previous posts.

Lets take this one step at a time .

Show me where I have quoted having an issue with Tolle having money .

You said you have answered this ..

Where is it ..

In fact I have stated on many occasions that I don't have an issue .

Like said lets take this one step at a time and one subject at a time ..

I could save you the trouble here because you won't actually find anything where I have expressed an issue with Tolle having millions .

I have said there is nothing wrong with a spiritual teacher having millions .

I have spoken about potential issues with teachers that teach about attachments and non attachments while having attachments themselves .

It's never been about the money .



x daz x

Originally Posted by sky123

What happens if the water is suddenly turned off without you being informed Your beliefs will take a bit of a shaking....

Would you then simply entertain a belief in that water is not pouring from the tap

This is what I am saying, and it is that we just attach to something else through our beliefs .

Would you sit there waiting for the water to flow or would you grab a beer from the fridge? (and not the oven)




x daz x

[sky]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Would you then simply entertain a belief in that water is not pouring from the tap

This is what I am saying, and it is that we just attach to something else through our beliefs .

Would you sit there waiting for the water to flow or would you grab a beer from the fridge? (and not the oven)




x daz x

Well I would shift my belief that the water would be coming through when the problems are solved...

I think i'll give the beer a miss because I am allergic to Alcohol and this is not a belief but a fact

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Lets take this one step at a time .

Show me where I have quoted having an issue with Tolle having money .

You said you have answered this ..

Where is it ..

In fact I have stated on many occasions that I don't have an issue .

Like said lets take this one step at a time and one subject at a time ..

I could save you the trouble here because you won't actually find anything where I have expressed an issue with Tolle having millions .

I have said there is nothing wrong with a spiritual teacher having millions .

I have spoken about potential issues with teachers that teach about attachments and non attachments while having attachments themselves .

It's never been about the money .



x daz x

Here are two from your posts...


'What has been one of my points is that if you are earning all this money by teaching about non attachment, needs and desires then you are going to attract criticism when your name is on the worlds rich mans list for example .'

' So when Tolle or any spiritual teacher brushes his teeth and charges £1000 dollars for a retreat he is doing so through ego construct .'



And as I had stated earlier, the Self-anchored person can handle money correctly and properly without lapses of absent-mindedness, and without cravings and greed that defines the ego.

God-like, rather than berating Tolle for his hard-earned millions, I would exhort you to be an enlightened millionaire like Tolle, and invite all here to your parties.

Nuff said.