Eckhart Tolle

[Shivani Devi]

So, My Higher Self thinks that shower time is a great time to chime in..so I sit here like a drowned rat.

Somebody might be meditating for an hour a day for 20 years and have not reached anywhere.

They may even say "In my last ten births, I ALSO meditated for an hour a day for 20 years and...nothing"!

Another may say..."well, I meditated for two hours a day for 25 years for a hundred births...then another hour a day for 20 years for another hundred births...for the past 50 births, I have been meditating twice a week for half an hour each time and only NOW am I starting to get somewhere..."

Another may say "Oh, I am just an incarnated Deva, popping in to see how you are all doing..Id really like a cup of tea and some scones if you got any".

Is it worth it? only you can answer that in your honest heart of hearts.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by ajay00

This is again misunderstanding on your part.

Self-awareness helps one to perceive reality better without any conditioned filters obstructing the perception, and take up appropriate action.

Ramana didn't need to answer the questions posed to him by strangers, or cook food for the hundreds of guests arriving at the mountain. But he did so out of a sense of duty engendered by love and compassion.

Same goes for Buddha and Nisargadatta.


The false self or ego does not have duties, only cravings and aversions which define it.

Hitler's aversion for the Jews and handicapped lead him to kill millions of them in concentration camps, while his craving for more territory lead him to kill millions of Slavs in the Balkans and Russia.

As Martin Luther King, the civil rights activist leader stated, " Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice, and justice at its best is power correcting everything that stands against love.”

Yes I'm big on self-awareness, and I'd bet a dollar (well, maybe 50 cents) that Tolle would be as well, and really, fundamentally speaking, it is our common oneness which validates our responsibility to a mutual duty of care.

All the power craving you mentioned is obviously harmful - of course hatred and greed manifests in harmful activities creating untold misery. I know I state the obvious, but can we say it is obvious when people still persist?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

That is not what I am implying, it is what I am saying.

Just because a self-realised person may not have any desire to teach, people can still learn something from him, which means that he is still 'teaching' even if he is not aware of it.

He may or may not have any desire to brush teeth...he can choose to brush teeth...or not and whether he does so or not is totally immaterial...however he realises that if he doesn't brush, he is gonna get cavities and his breath gonna stink, which is not a belief, but a FACT.

He may still have opinions, desires and all of that, but whether or not another is gonna agree, disagree, fulfill the desires or not fulfill the desires is totally immaterial to him...if he gets it, good! if he doesn't get it, good! he remains pretty ambivalent towards everything, really.

I am talking about teachers that are aware of teaching, teachers that are aware that they are charging $1000 for there retreats . I am talking about individuals that are aware of killing other individuals .

Sure you can live by example and teachings can be seen through their reflections but such actions that are lived as an example will mirror there self awareness in reflection of what they are or what they have realized .

You know you will get some self realized masters that won't harm another being, and then you get those that slay demons and tyrants ..

Why would one do and one not do, this is going to be because of how they see things in reflection of themselves .

People who have desires and and opinions will have them because of their self reflection and their beliefs ..

It's not totally immaterial as you put it it is actually key to my point making .

You can't entertain the fact that your teeth will rot without entertaining the belief that it is a fact otherwise you wouldn't state it as a fact .

You can't see this . You are carrying on in a similar fashion like you did about water pouring from the tap lol .

You believe that water comes from the tap . It's not your belief that makes the water pour from the tap as we both agree upon ..

This however doesn't negate the belief in that it does .

While you can't see this you won't understand what I am saying about attachments through beliefs .


x daz x

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Can you please read what I have ACTUALLY said about Tolle and his money then get back to me .

You stated that Tolle is driven by ego and attachments when handling money, and I stated it is not so, giving references to Janaka, Rama and Krishna.

You keep stating so incessantly inspite of my references, because you associate all moneymaking with cravings and greed, when it is not so.

Originally Posted by God-Like

I really think the point has where your so blinded by your agenda that your incapable of doing what I have asked of you .

I have already answered your criticism on Tolle, with respect to the Self handling the mind-body instrument, and on the money part with the examples of Janaka, Rama and Krishna.

I don't understand why you keep hammering on the 'your incapable of doing what I have asked of you' inspite of my posts in this regard.

Obviously this shows intellectual dishonesty and sophistry.

I enjoy refuting/answering the posts criticizing the once poverty stricken Tolle's new found wealth, and other posts which shows a poor understanding of advaita/nonduality, so as to bring perspective and understanding to this thread.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ajay00

Krishna was an underdog figure against the likes of Kamsa and Duryodhana. In the first case, he did not have an army of his own, and had to execute a coup, and in the second case, Duryodhana's army was numerically superior to Arjuna's.

Krishna had endeavoured as a diplomat to create peace between Duryodhana and Yudhisthira, but failed in his attempts. The war came about later on.

The point I am making here is that Krishna was established in Self-awareness while performing his allotted duties, as a warrior, administrator, diplomat,general, charioteer and spiritual teacher. In fact, it was his state of awareness that is considered to be the source of his intuitions and efficiency in work.

It was not, as God-like stated, that he did not know toothbrush or how to brush his teeth or tie his shoelaces in Awareness.

All this shows deficiency in understanding of advaita/nonduality.

' All this shows deficiency in understanding of advaita/nonduality.'

Which shows your attachment to your beliefs.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sky123

' All this shows deficiency in understanding of advaita/nonduality.'

Which shows your attachment to your beliefs.

It also shows a complete deficiency in understanding what I actually said .

This is the ridiculous nature behind all of our conversations plus the added agenda .


x daz x

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I am talking about teachers that are aware of teaching, teachers that are aware that they are charging $1000 for there retreats . I am talking about individuals that are aware of killing other individuals .

Sure you can live by example and teachings can be seen through their reflections but such actions that are lived as an example will mirror there self awareness in reflection of what they are or what they have realized .

You know you will get some self realized masters that won't harm another being, and then you get those that slay demons and tyrants ..

Why would one do and one not do, this is going to be because of how they see things in reflection of themselves .

People who have desires and and opinions will have them because of their self reflection and their beliefs ..

It's not totally immaterial as you put it it is actually key to my point making .

You can't entertain the fact that your teeth will rot without entertaining the belief that it is a fact otherwise you wouldn't state it as a fact .

You can't see this . You are carrying on in a similar fashion like you did about water pouring from the tap lol .

You believe that water comes from the tap . It's not your belief that makes the water pour from the tap as we both agree upon ..

This however doesn't negate the belief in that it does .

While you can't see this you won't understand what I am saying about attachments through beliefs .


x daz x

So, if something is a fact, how does one entertain the belief that it is a fact, when it is a fact and not a belief?

This is also the whole point that I am making.

That is why people say "I believe in God" because God hasn't been proven anywhere to be "factual" in any way that another can perceive it.

However, it is a well known fact (irrespective of belief) that if you don't brush your teeth, you are gonna get cavities because food gets trapped there...acid and bacteria starts eating away at the tooth enamel...you get my drift.

As for teachers charging exorbitant rates for retreats...I am going to have to agree with you there.

Just look at Sadhguru

https://ishayoga.org.au/sadhguru-in-australia

Now, scroll down to the bottom, look at those seating arrangements and the prices charged for them.

Basically, if you pay $1,400...you just MAY be able to catch a glimpse of Sadhguru in person.

If you opt out for the cheaper "peanut gallery" don't worry, my friends...you can still catch a glimpse of your beloved idol on the giant screens..

OR, I can hook up my laptop to my 120cm TV via HDMI, run a Sadhguru video on the tube, watch him on a big screen, in full, living colour without having to pay a cent...and lay down on my lounge eating popcorn meanwhile...

I can see your point there...but whether Sadhguru is self-realised or not, God only knows! I would say "not", but then again, what would I know about that?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by ajay00

You stated that Tolle is driven by ego and attachments when handling money, and I stated it is not so, giving references to Janaka, Rama and Krishna.

You keep stating so incessantly inspite of my references, because you associate all moneymaking with cravings and greed, when it is not so.



I have already answered your criticism on Tolle, with respect to the Self handling the mind-body instrument, and on the money part with the examples of Janaka, Rama and Krishna.

I don't understand why you keep hammering on the 'your incapable of doing what I have asked of you' inspite of my posts in this regard.

Obviously this shows intellectual dishonesty and sophistry.

I enjoy refuting/answering the posts criticizing the once poverty stricken Tolle's new found wealth, and other posts which shows a poor understanding of advaita/nonduality, so as to bring perspective and understanding to this thread.

You only need to look at what I had said and what I had asked at the time of asking .

This is why conversations like this go nowhere fast .

I have asked you to speak of your experiences regarding self and no self in order to relate and understand their differences .

I have asked you to quote me on where I have issues with Tolle and his money .

I have asked you about the I AM that is present .

The list is as long as my arm, just read through what I have said and respectfully asked .

You don't seem to understand the nature of self or ego or attachment because all your doing is referencing other dudes and teachers that go about their business killing people and setting up retreats .

We will have to agree to disagree with what constitutes ego self mind expressions and what doesn't .

The fact that you haven't spoken about your experiences of this makes it difficult for me to understand you on a personal level .

It seems that all I am doing is having a conversation with you through other peoples quotes and life experiences .

Like said I will leave it there .. This is just a circular not getting anywhere at all . The foundation doesn't support an open and an honest and an unbiased conversation as it has proven .


x daz x

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by sky123

' All this shows deficiency in understanding of advaita/nonduality.'

Which shows your attachment to your beliefs.

It is true that Advaita/nonduality has more to do with experiential understanding rather than mere intellectual understanding. Mere intellectual understanding is bound to be deluded and productive of more ignorance.

But advaita/nonduality also have a theoretical framework to it, erring which one is bound to get into deluded confusions.

As Michael Jordan stated, " “You can practice shooting eight hours a day, but if your technique is wrong, then all you become is very good at shooting the wrong way. Get the fundamentals down and the level of everything you do will rise.”

Originally Posted by sky123

Which shows your attachment to your beliefs.

How does nonduality become a belief set, when it is stripped of the conditioned thoughts and emotions that comprise beliefsets !

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

So, if something is a fact, how does one entertain the belief that it is a fact, when it is a fact and not a belief?

This is also the whole point that I am making.

I haven't got time to address all your post as I need to get on with my day .

What I am saying is that the weather outside is sunny . That is a fact .

You have a belief in that it is sunny .

Your belief in that it is sunny doesn't make it sunny .

It is sunny regardless of your belief .

You can have a belief in that fact or not, but you will believe what you believe either way .

You have an attachment to what you believe which is entwined within your perception of how you see things .

Teachers, teacher and teachers kill others based upon their beliefs and attachments and how they perceive demons and how they perceive what it is that they are teaching .

It's that straightforward .

All I am hearing is that these individuals are above and beyond all this .



x daz x