Spirituality and Nutrition

Originally Posted by Zero

what's going on around this thread? Spirituality isn't a competition, pah.

Indeed - good that you bring this up. I always feel disappointed on this site when I see egos being defended rather than points being pursued in a more considered, spiritual manner. It's my yardstick for how spiritual someone is, i.e. to what extent someone is self-absorbed/egocentric to me speaks volumes on how far along the Path they are. Sorry to have sidetracked the topic of this thread but - time for reflection here, I feel? Or, to bring it back on topic, organic assam tea would be a good tea break at this point!?

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Zero

This is actually an excellent point, I haven't checked my shampoo manufacturers very well at all, I will now. Thankyou :)

Also, what's going on around this thread? Spirituality isn't a competition, pah.

Love and light to all

Not sure who you're firing at, but I'll make this point anyway.

Not so long ago there were people on this earth who ate human flesh (cannibalism) They saw nothing wrong with it.
Then some good people went to their lands and confronted them, and taught them that it was wrong to eat human flesh, that they didn't need to do it and they showed them a better way. Now, they don't do it.

This is precisely how humanity/civilisation has been advanced through the Ages.

And you yourself, Zero, Debby had the strength of character to speak up and highlight that particular issue. Now you're not going to buy cosmetic products that have been tested on animals in future. (Good for you.) Though I suspect you might have done so in the past. Thanks to Debby, a small victory for compassion - and you are the better for it. And this awakening to one aspect of compassionate living will almost certainly lead you on to show compassion in other areas and aspects of your life.

Cruelty, suffering and injustice won't disappear by themselves. Indeed, they are only strengthened and magnified by silence and inaction.

Sometimes you have to stand up and 'fight' for what you believe in, what you know to be right and true.

Peace, love and kindness to ALL!

Originally Posted by DebbyM

I'm glad that you had a connection with your dog Stephen. They bring so much to our lives, replacing children when the kids are grown, replacing eyes when they don't work, being a sinkhole for our own feelings of loneliness. But do you spare a thought for the other creatures that we've imprisoned and that we torture moment by moment? Or does the difference between your dog and that sow present such a chasm that the sow becomes unworthy of consideration? What is under your kitchen sink? Products from Dupont, Johnson & Johnson, Dawn, Pledge, Clorox? And what about your wife. What is on her side of the bathroom? Products from l'Oreal, Max Factor, Maybelline.....? Pointing out a cozy relationship with a pet is nice, but it doesn't help the creatures that are being tortured right now so that we can have a nice shine on the dining room table or a rosy blush on our cheeks.

Now this is truly interesting... it must be a result of the complications that come with having to communicate via words, at a distance, with no body
language and the lack of ability to easily elaborate. :^)

There is no distance between what you're expressing above and my feelings on the issues... This thing with my dog spreads-out through all animals...
I've had numerous experiences with animals of all types (had our own mini farm for awhile) I've connected directly with animals in dreams.. what
you're saying is not only ~perfectly relevant~ but is at the core of our ignorance as humans....

When I say "caring for animals is entry level" I mean just that... from there our connection with animals goes much much much much more deeper...
our bodies are animal bodies... our interaction with animals are deeply energetic, genetically overlapping, empathetically vibrant, seamlessly
dynamic... we are so off the grid by trying to be "conscious" that we completely miss-out on this connection...

But once you begin bonding with animals for real... something else becomes readily apparent... it's not Disneyland in them-there-parts.... Animals are
very hard on each other... we're in need of exploring that as well... animals kill animals for food... it's a cooperative thing.. has been going on since the
single-cell days... there's a built-in cooperation on the animals part that allows for this process to thrive... some species breed in large number to
accommodate this process, the higher up the food chain the less this is necessary... species adapt...

Doing "lab-testings" on animals is stupid... why would they need to do such research... because the stuff that they're researching is poison... they're
trying to figure out how much poison to give us by seeing what level it will take to kill animals, and then dial it back a bit so it doesn't kill us... this is
stupid on so many levels! Live in harmony with nature and our health is assured... live in harmony with animals and the cooperation that they
readily extend to other animals will be freely given-up to us as well...

And here's the problem with spiritual and religious themes... they are each contributors to this madness-of-distraction... "our focus becomes all about
elsewhere".... religion only cares about this ambiguous nonsense about going to heaven.. and the "spiritual" distraction tends to hover around this objectified goal of
"transcending"... all of which are ridiculous wastes of time!

Think about it... we are currently inhabiting one of the most amazing dances of creation... our bodies are a magical symphony of trillions of cells
somehow intrinsically in-cooperation with each other... the largest computer that we've created to date couldn't get anywhere near this level of
proficiency! And yet we discount this connection for the sake of external distractions... we seek elsewhere for magic while our very body is magical
beyond comprehension....

This is why I've been so deeply obsessed with our nutrition and our bodies as of late... all that I've been studying for years has lead me back to this
most basic realization... we are born into magic, we are deeply embedded into a magical process... and as we purify our connection to this magic by
addressing the tools that surround us in a harmonious way, then this magic comes-to-life multi-dimensionally...

If a person truly wants to become spiritually attuned then they need to become physically focused...!

For it's in the physical that all-that-is-relevant is happening while we're here! These are the tools that we were born-into... these are the tools
that we're learning to use... our inwardly inspired empathy, our outward connectivity, our ability to tune-into and bond-with, is both the challenge
and reward for this effort of "being human"...

There is only a very marginal difference between us and the animals that surround us... and that difference is the "potential" for flexibility... we can
move about quite freely between this huge menu of perspectives... while animals are largely focused on their own... but there is great magic in that
as well... an animal lives fully in the now... an animal is sensitive of all that surrounds it, pays deep attention to what's going on in it's own body, an
animal is seamlessly riveted to it's present-need and survival...

an animal doesn't "think" itself into distraction... an animal is "present" and is soaking-in it's environment in a very organic way...

We have soooo sooo much that we can learn from them... but we have to come within alignment first before any of this learning is possible... cleaning
our bodies up is one of those requirements.. focusing on the present is another... :^)

Hope that clears-up some of the confusion as to where I'm dynamically at with this subject...

[Squatchit]

I feel like standing up and applauding after reading your post Stephen.

Here is the main point

You cant drive across country, in a lemon of a car, cause itll break down on the way.

To approach an average citizen with a plea for donations to support starving children, battered women, education for 3rd world countries children or even the Salvation Army, generally gets a few dollars from everyone. Requesting donations to help endangered species also results in enough of a tug at the old heart strings, that people will dig into their pockets. But ask people to be compassionate and help food animals or lab animals and there are a plethora of reasons why they can't or won't today. Caring for humanity is entry level. Even among 'spiritual' people.

You spend a lot of words in trying to explain 'animal connections, human-animal bodies, yada, yada, yada, but you miss the essence of Love which is when you love a part of yourself, you make every effort to not hurt it. I don't see that happening even among the 'grass fed, free range crowd'. Limitations of all sorts pop up both consciously and unconsciously which explains the contents under millions of sinks and millions of bathrooms and millions of womens makeup and personal care cupboards, not to mention all of the clothes that are made up of animal suffering, i.e. wool, leather, furs.

While you may agree that testing poisons on animals is 'stupid', what exactly do you do about it? Do you purchase those things or do you spend the extra money, look extra hard to find substitutes and withold your dollars from the companies that torture?

"but we have to come within alignment first before any of this learning is possible... cleaning
our bodies up is one of those requirements.." Quoted

While you say that focusing on the present is one of the things we have to learn, I would suggest that your opening words indicate that you live more with an eye to the future. You are waiting to arrive at some sort of alignment before any learning is possible and you are so wrong. We make a decision every moment as to what kind of person we will be. We are learning with each breathe, what is necessary to be the kind of beautiful embodiment of Love we are capable of being. Putting it off to some future-tense in the manner that you've suggested is the escape from choosing on behalf of someone else right now, while you are able. What's more, you don't know if you will be walking this earth tomorrow, so putting off compassion can mean that you may not choose it, in this lifetime anyway.

THe thing is, you cant get away from it. There are lubricants for your car, that are only made with animal products (certain oils)

Originally Posted by Time

THe thing is, you cant get away from it. There are lubricants for your car, that are only made with animal products (certain oils)

You're right Time, sadly enough there is animal suffering in so many things and while we can't escape being sucked into the void of compassion entirely, we can all (if we choose) operate according to the mandate of 'least harm' instead of just saying 'well that's the way it is, so there's no reason for me to even try'.

Again I offer up the words of Helen Keller because they speak to my feelings in this regard so ably:

"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything but still I can do something, and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do."

And in this country, we can all, not be the cause of suffering in the animal kingdom.

Originally Posted by Squatchit

I feel like standing up and applauding after reading your post Stephen.

Thank you my dear friend...!

Debby.... oye.... talk with you later perhaps...