Christianity is Corrupt

Originally Posted by PureEvil760

It's generally corrupt because it doesn't really have anything to do with the real God, they don't care about that. Some do it for community, some really believe but none seek the real God, and one who does can no longer be Christian, or at least would have to keep quiet about it for fear of being cast out.

Generally or absolutely? Which Christian groups would you judge to be the least corrupt?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by PureEvil760

'For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.' (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

That's indicative of the majority of people today, regardless of their personal religious or philosophical philosophy. It's the fractured times we're in. To single out Christians is short-sighted and rather biased I would suggest. I say this with good intention and please, at least pause and consider what I'm pointing out. I'm conversing with you, not looking to argue.

That Timothy passage is pointing to an evolutionary human-collective experience. One particular stage of our development as eternal souls. The Bible is full of such esoteric and exoteric pronouncements. These are not bad things. These are prescient glimpses into the stages of the growth of the child (human being) into the conscious adult (soul-self).

Originally Posted by Baile

That's indicative of the majority of people today, regardless of their personal religious or philosophical philosophy. It's the fractured times we're in. To single out Christians is short-sighted and rather biased I would suggest. And is it really appropriate to post this on a Christian forum where people gather to lovingly talk about their beliefs? I ask you that in all seriousness and please, at least pause and consider what I'm pointing out. I'm conversing with you, not looking to argue.

By the way, I was tossed out of a (non-spiritual just fyi) forum years ago, and that was because I was poking people and poking at their comments. Poking and poking. Not being kind, not being friendly. Not being loving. Poking. Never posting positive,supporting comments, but only when I had something negative to point out. Today, if I were the moderator of that site back then, I would have tossed me as well.

As long as nobody is trying to poke me in the eye with their hot stick, I think there is a place for poking around in the coals to see if there is any fire left to build on. Too often it just ends up with people blowing smoke that inadvertently gets in other blowers eyes and vice versa.

You make a good point, it is not just Christians who, when compared to their dogma and evangelized beliefs, lack integrity, but pretty much all of us. And not just now, but as far as I can discern, for all of human history. Most people refer to themselves as "I" or "me" when they really should be using "we" or "us", as there are many selves within that one person, and they don't always agree with each other, and many are not even on speaking terms.

Even the Bible itself presents a bipolar God between the new and old testaments. Or perhaps even one of multiple personalities. This confuses many who feel such hope and promise in the underlying message in the teachings of Jesus, and becomes an obstacle blocking the eye of the needle that they might otherwise pass through. Too often when they raise their questions they are told that it is "not our place to question God", if you want to stay you must "just accept it is truth", leaving them to wonder which of the conflicting accounts are they to accept as truth. Or worse yet, others just say "go away you non-believer", and unfortunately for all involved they often just do. It seems to me that most who really dive into their Christian faith and try to understand it rather then just memorize it will inevitably become confused. Not just on what is there, but perhaps on which conflicting apologist to believe. And so they may decide that there are perhaps better places to look for Jesus where he is more easy to see with less extraneous clutter about him.

While it does feel good when the parish is together on Sunday morning, and all lovingly singing hymns, one might notice that there are more and more empty pews. Anyway, at least that was what I noticed the last time I was there, which was a while ago.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Too often when they raise their questions they are told that it is "not our place to question God", if you want to stay you must "just accept it is truth", leaving them to wonder which of the conflicting accounts are they to accept as truth. Or worse yet, others just say "go away you non-believer", and unfortunately for all involved they often just do..

You see, I take that as a loving sign from the universe (The Living Stream, I call it) to joyfully move on and find another group who share my values. So, thank you, you non-believer accusers, for making my choice so easy! It's all love. Thank you Living Stream for your clear guidance, my gratitude. That's how I approach such issues.

I edited out my second paragraph before you posted, or so I thought. I realize people are free to speak on any topic here.

Originally Posted by Baile

You see, I take that as a loving sign from the universe (The Living Stream, I call it) to joyfully move on and find another group who share my values. So, thank you, you non-believer accusers, for making my choice so easy! It's all love. Thank you Living Stream for your clear guidance, my gratitude. That's how I approach such issues.

I edited out my second paragraph before you posted, or so I thought. I realize people are free to speak on any topic here.

Yes, I suppose sometimes being rejected for ones beliefs is a blessing in disguise. Personally, I would rather drift about in a life boat on the open ocean rather than stay marooned on a carnivorous island and hiding in the trees when the sun goes down.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Yes, I suppose sometimes being rejected for ones beliefs is a blessing in disguise.

Thanks ketzer, I appreciate the discussion.

It's love. You are being directed in love. "Love is not here for you! Look elsewhere! It's everywhere, you'll find it eventually!" That's what rejection is.

[jojo50]

Originally Posted by ketzer

That's very true. In fact it's even more complicated than that. I would say that just because someone adopts the label of "Christian", doesn't mean that they are true followers of Jesus. I am pretty certain of that, even if I don't know what a "true" follower of Jesus looks like myself.

I totally agree, remember what Jesus said to the false leaders of his day? (Matt. 23:13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in). we wouldn't known who they are just by looking at them. because MANY puts on a front ,(Matt. 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves).

but Jesus said we would know them by the MANY ways they carry themselves ,(John 13:35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another”). ANY who calls themselves a "Christian", show not only love ALL. but especially have love AMONG themselves. they try to live as Jesus did ,(John 17:14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world).

a true "Christian" does NOT try to live as the rest of the world lives, (1John 2:15-17 Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you. For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world). again the actions shows who they are. peace

[sky]

Originally Posted by jojo50

I totally agree, remember what Jesus said to the false leaders of his day? (Matt. 23:13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in). we wouldn't known who they are just by looking at them. because MANY puts on a front ,(Matt. 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves).

but Jesus said we would know them by the MANY ways they carry themselves ,(John 13:35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another”). ANY who calls themselves a "Christian", show not only love ALL. but especially have love AMONG themselves. they try to live as Jesus did ,(John 17:14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world).

a true "Christian" does NOT try to live as the rest of the world lives, (1John 2:15-17 Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you. For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world). again the actions shows who they are. peace

' a true "Christian" does NOT try to live as the rest of the world lives,'

You personally feel this way but you really don't have the authority to judge who or isn't a ' True Christian ', neither does John....

Originally Posted by jojo50

I totally agree, remember what Jesus said to the false leaders of his day? (Matt. 23:13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in). .....
peace

I am not much of a Bible thumper, nor would I ever wish to be. That said, I do occasionally look to a few of my favorite passages when trying to make a point. The woes of the Pharisees are some passages I find myself using more than others. Of course, there is a bit of irony in that, is there not?
Pharisee is just one of the labels for the religious authorities who told people what God wanted in the time of Jesus. And Scribe is just a title for people who scribbled those words down and/or copied what those and previous authorities claimed 'God says'.
Fast forward a few hundred years and now instead of Pharisees we have Bishops deciding what God wants and determining what will and will not be sanctioned as "The Word" in their "Holy Bible". Fast forward a couple of eons, and we have all sorts of theologians and modern day self proclaimed prophets arguing about what that "Word" is or means, how one gets into the "Kingdom of Heaven", and what happens to those who do not. Not to mention that all that time in between people have been fighting, suffering, and dying about who has and correctly interprets "The Word".
I do believe that whatever Jesus's original teachings were, he intended to bring an overall message of love, peace, tolerance, and forgiveness. Yet as we humans are apt to do, we have somehow figured out a way to hate each other, murder each other, and go to war over what he meant to say.
I don't mind listening to the old and the new Scribes, Pharisees, Bishops, Priests, and Prophets, but I refuse to take them at their word that they are the only ones who have and understand "The Word".

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by sky123

' a true "Christian" does NOT try to live as the rest of the world lives,'


You personally feel this way but you really don't have the authority to judge who or isn't a ' True Christian ', neither does John....

and yet... teh passage she quoted bears much truth.