Hi! I am a Chinese Buddhist.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by icy_su

I am not going to compare who of us understand more about Zen Buddhism. It's a waste of time and energy. And I am not going into discussion on the Zen Buddhism again. It's also a waste of time and energy.

Buddhism never come from discussion, which is such a waste of time...

Best,
Icy

Lol . I don't know much about zen buddhism Icy and I am not suggesting so,

all I am asking you is do you understand how a zen master can write a poem about there realization even though one understands that words are limited .

I will refrain from asking you anymore questions, thanks for your time .

x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Lol . I don't know much about zen buddhism Icy and I am not suggesting so,

all I am asking you is do you understand how a zen master can write a poem about there realization even though one understands that words are limited .

I will refrain from asking you anymore questions, thanks for your time .

x daz x

I would suggest you to find a Zen practitioner to discuss. The topic is beyond my knowledge.

Thanks for your questions.

Kind regards,
Icy

[Gem]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Lol . I don't know much about zen buddhism Icy and I am not suggesting so,

all I am asking you is do you understand how a zen master can write a poem about there realization even though one understands that words are limited .

I will refrain from asking you anymore questions, thanks for your time .

x daz x

Anyone can write a poem about anything, if they're so inclined. Usually a poet has a strong emotional response or sense of philosophical wonder and wants to impact upon his audience.

I didn't know the OP was a poet.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Gem

Anyone can write a poem about anything, if they're so inclined. Usually a poet has a strong emotional response or sense of philosophical wonder and wants to impact upon his audience.

I didn't know the OP was a poet.

I agree Gem in how you put it . .

There was suggestion that some Zen masters don’t waste energy talking about their self realizations because of the limitations that are of the written word .

The poem that was posted was supposedly from an unknown Zen master as Icy put it . .

I was seeing if Icy understood that the Zen master evaluated his realizations in order to convey them into a poem form . The intellectual mind being the filter of such understandings .

It just seemed a bit odd that on one hand it is waste of energy talking about any of it when a Zen master obviously begs to differ otherwise he wouldn’t of produced his understandings via the written word .

Where there are teachings of certain faiths / religions / Meditations which emphasise not speaking, not thinking, not evaluating and such likes but have been at some point spoken of and evaluated to be so .

Like with most things there are contradictions and ironies any which way you turn .
Its like saying I have evaluated through the Intellectual mind that not thinking via the Intellectual mind is the way to go . doh!! lol .

x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Its like saying I have evaluated through the Intellectual mind that not thinking via the Intellectual mind is the way to go . doh!! lol .

x daz x

Bingo!!! lol~~~ I really cannot explain. It's beyond my capability and knowledge. But you are right on this point. You get all As in schoold doesn't mean you can get Buddhism right~~~

I should refrain from this topic, so that to avoid bringing about more confusion, and curiosity.

Kind regards,
Icy

Well maybe Zen Buddhism is more intellectual. But I don't know Zen much. For Pure Land Buddhism, I can assure you that it comes from simple but continous efforts in daily lives. You do not really need to think that much.

If there's a mighty power there, be it God or Buddha, he must be very fair. I like the truth that Pure Land Buddhism shows a way that basically no matter how many score you can get in school, you can follow the way and be enlightened.

[God-Like]

Every teaching from every corner of the world is intellectually based because what lies beyond the intellect is not buddhism, toaism, christianity, the heart or the soul nor father christmas .

Every book written, every scripture written that one follows as being the truth and such likes is created within the mind . Step by step the teachings keep one within a particular field until at a point where none of it exists .

If you get buddhism or if you understand the inns and outs of christianity then in essence you get nothing at all for at the end of the day it doesn’t exist other than in your mind . You can’t take baggage throught the eye of the needle .

x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by icy_su

Well maybe Zen Buddhism is more intellectual. But I don't know Zen much. For Pure Land Buddhism, I can assure you that it comes from simple but continous efforts in daily lives. You do not really need to think that much.

If there's a mighty power there, be it God or Buddha, he must be very fair. I like the truth that Pure Land Buddhism shows a way that basically no matter how many score you can get in school, you can follow the way and be enlightened.

It doesn't matter Icy if Pure Land Buddhism is a simple process that one follows or indures .

The method has been attained through the intellectual mind .

People go about there day living a simple life without thinking they do . They only know they are when they stop to think about it .

It then can be called a simple life .

''To make up'' any spiritual movement based around simplicity or complexity matters not 'its the making it up bit' that I am speaking of .

People can chant buddha all day long and still not reach the promised land .

People can sit on a mountain top all year round and not reach enlightenment .

Its not about buddha or the mountain top .

x dazzle x

Well there are actually a ton of books about the intellectual part of Buddhism. You may want to take a look.

I did read a lot of them, although today I am not willing to discuss those theories. I am benefited a lot from the books, but only along the process of my Pure Land Buddhism practice.

That is to say, I know learning or discussing on the theories is meaningless without practice. But at least it gives you curiosity so that you may try practicing~~~

Yet Buddhism Yuan is not that simple. I mean when dose a person really go into Buddhism? It's not simply that you are curious now and you can begin practicing. You need to accumulate lots and lots of fortune in your past lives, and in this life, through your efforts of helping others.

All the great Buddhists I know are great people in their lives. Only in this way can they creat Yuan with Buddha. For example, me. I watched my Mom practicing Buddhism for so many years. I tried as she requested. But I didn't feel anything and didn't believe in the mantras etc. Yet along the years I grow up, I followed my Mom's advice that always try to be good to others.

A few years ago, I was in a very very difficult situation. At that time, I found there's no way, no person who can help me out. So I tried to read a mantra. It was in the ceremony of Quan-yin Buddha's birthday. And all of a sudden, I understand the mantra's meaning. Well actually it was a very very common mantra and I had seen it long before but just didn't belive it. It was from that point that I began to really practice Pure Land Buddhism.

Hence for all people who are confused and are wondering outside the gate of Buddhism, I have only one suggestion -- try to accumulate fortune as much as possible by helping others.

As I said, Buddhism is really not like learning a theory from a book.

Whoever follows the dharma
Is joyful here and joyful there.
and in both worlds rejoices
And how greatly
When seeing the good that has been done.
For great is the harvest in this world,
And greater still in the next.
However many holy words you read,
However many you speak,
What good will they do you
If you do not act upon them?
Are you a shepherd
Who counts another man's sheep,
Never sharing the way?
Read as few words as you like,
And speak fewer.
But act upon the dharma.
Give up the old ways -
Passion, enmity, folly.
Know the truth and find peace.
Share the way.

=Buddha=Love

From the Dhammapada (the path of truth)
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/SHALOM/dhammapada.html