Is suffering real ? Is love, joy real?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

And me, and the only way I can describe it is with metaphor/analogy.
It's as direct an experience as hearing someone clap their hands.

I try to explain it, (the dream thing) as similar to skewing your vision a bit
to see the 3D prints revealing the giraffe! :)


The brain, for some reason*, shifts, and you enter or are transported to an altered state of perception, (not new,
'The Doors of Perception' are opened - ref Aldous Huxley. And "Cosmic Consciousness" by Richard M. Bucke.
W. Blake, seeing 'Heaven in a wild flower', might help).

When you SEE into things like an Electron Microscope with a different 'sight'...there is no more metaphor.
You see to the core of things and that there is -
1. a living, breathing Spirit/consciousness in a freaking rock, dry wall, in the air. And
2. that it is all Light slowing down like a Shape Shifter to appear as MATTER!
When I read that 'there is no matter' in Baird Spaulding's books...
I thought, 'Hallelujah, someone is saying it in writing!!'

Every single thing I see with my eyes open is made of Dream stuff...poof -
like a Hologram...at it's core, Light.
No metaphor for me...that's is just the Reality of this place...this Third Dimension.

* I can only say is Grace, a Gift from God or from your Higher Self
allowing a 'bleed through' to your conscious mind.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

And
2. that it is all Light slowing down like a Shape Shifter to appear as MATTER!
When I read that 'there is no matter' in Baird Spaulding's books...
I thought, 'Hallelujah, someone is saying it in writing!!'

Peter Russell on:

Matter - https://youtu.be/-d4ugppcRUE?list=PL...zdrQA &t=2334

Space & Time (and Light!) - https://youtu.be/-d4ugppcRUE?list=PL...zdrQA &t=2728

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Ask me or NDErs why they talk about this world being a dream...an actual dream ..not a metaphor.

People on this thread, said it is a dream metaphor.

Ok, why do you talk about this world being a dream, an actual dream, and not a metaphor?

Is being near death any different from being asleep? Both happen when unconscious, The only difference between near death and sleep is that near death does not happen on purpose, and sleep happens on purpose. For all I know, a near death experience can be as much of a subjective experience as a dream.

Edit: I would not think any different if I had a near death experience. I had many brushes with death, but nothing, nada, zilch for me.

Isn't life and death suppose to be the same or not separate or no different for a non-dualist?

[Native spirit]

Being near death and dreaming are Worlds apart there is no comparison to make between them both.
I have had three NDE and I can tell you it is nothing like dreaming,


Namaste

[J_A_S_G]

The purpose of the dream analogy is a simple example that just like waking reality destroys the illusion of dream reality there's a higher reality that destroys the illusion of waking reality. Just like one can attain lucidity within a dream and see its unreality something similar can be attained in waking reality, revealing its unreality.

Tying this back to the topic of this thread and accepting the above, is suffering real if the reality it appears in is unreal? Is suffering in a dream real?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

People on this thread, said it is a dream metaphor.
Ok, why do you talk about this world being a dream, an actual dream, and not a metaphor?

Hi Mike,
OK. I looked up metaphor so I wasn't making mistakes. :)
They gave this great example, "That chef is a magician!"
To take that apart a bit, the chef is not actually a magician...we can agree on that.

I am saying every single solitary thing you see with your eyes open is a Dream, from what I have been shown more than once.
(I never mentioned what I was shown at 5 years old...just at 8 yrs old that nothing was really 'real' ---but only looked real, a dream.)

Now, if a person has not experienced this for themselves they can question that statement
from me and others...what proof can we give,
other than the discoveries of Quantum Physics, finally.

Also, if anyone wants to think this place is real while tapping on their granite counter - I understand that.
That is why it's called an Illusion ...not a ''Pretty Good Illusion".

Adding: I also respect the Left Brain thinkers - we need them in the world. :)
I am a Right Brainer - all this is way easier for me to get.

And Native spirit, just to say, Oh boy, I know an NDE is nothing like a dream. It is 'realer' than here!!!!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

...Tying this back to the topic .... is suffering real if the reality it appears in is unreal?
Is suffering in a dream real?

* PS - I brought up this topic because of someone's interesting post...
I personally did not have a question about whether love or suffering was real ...or what is real, for that matter.*

Brilliant question in bold. Oh, would I ever like to spin off the topic and ask ---
Does anyone here understand WHY there is a phrase called, "The Agony and the Ecstasy"?
Oh, the delicious discussions regarding The Paradox of it all...how agony and ecstasy are the flip sides of the same coin!.... What?

Yes, this is when one must go beyond our little logic that out brains come up with -as I see it.
Which is the purpose of the Zen Koans...like "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"
A Left Brainer does NOT understand why this question was even posed!!
So how can they grasp this place IS a dream ...not some metaphor.

(Btw, I see no problem if they think this place is actually real. So don't get mad at me!)

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Brilliant question in bold.

That's a product of my left brain.

Of course that doesn't mean my right brain is inactive or atrophied.

I love the Rush album "Hemispheres". Neil Peart was into philosophy and it came through in the lyrics he wrote. Hemishperes is about the battle between Heart and Mind. A couple of verses from the last song "The Sphere a Kind of Dream":

Let the truth of Love be lighted
Let the love of truth shine clear

With the Heart and Mind united
In a single perfect sphere

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by JASG

Let the truth of Love be lighted
Let the love of truth shine clear

With the Heart and Mind united
In a single perfect sphere

Great poem!

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Great poem!

Peart is quite the lyricist!

Here's a verse from my favorite poem and it encapsulates the gist of this thread.

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;