Jesus is not God

[DivineLove]

Originally Posted by ciel_perdu

Jesus himself did not ask people to subscribe to certain beliefs in order to follow him, and I don't think a strict dogma of beliefs was really on the disciples minds either. I honestly see from reading their writings, that what they cared about most, was people listening to, and practicing the truth that Jesus spoke. I believe the rest is not of eternal significance, in that it is all mainly theological.

Ceil,

I really like what you have written here, it is quite good, and feels very true ~

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Hi Beautiful,

There's historical evidence other than the bible that there was a man Jesus that was crucified. None for the virgin birth, miracles and resurrection though.

The universal church of King Constantine was formed from a rag-tag group of quarrelling and insult hurling religious bodies, that called themselves Christians. King Constantine, finally sick to the stomach with their constant bickering, called together all the heads of those bickering bodies to the first ever “World Council of Churches” where, under the dominating presence of the non-christian and almost certainly theologically illiterate King Constantine, the universal church was established in 325 AD, some 300 years after the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ had been established in Jerusalem.

In the days of the Apostle Paul who in 1st Timothy 1: 1; says: “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of “GOD OUR SAVIOUR’ and Christ Jesus ‘OUR HOPE.’” The people were already beginning to fall away from the truth, and following another gospel that was not taught by the word of God or the apostles.

In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, “You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us.”

Then in Galatians 1: 6; Paul says again, “I am surprised at you! In no time at all you are deserting the truth and are accepting another gospel.

So, What was that other gospel that was leading the people away from the truth and away from the Jesus as preached by the Apostles, to another false Jesus?

That gospel was the word of the anti-christ that refused to acknowledge that Jesus had come as a human being, and instead, they believed that he was a spirit, who, like some Hologram, would appear and disappear at will.

Even in the later days of John, the false teaching that Jesus was not of the seed of Adam from which every human being who has, or ever will walk this earth, has descended, and had not come as a human being, but as a spiritual being, was already beginning to rear its ugly head, and concerning that evolving falsehood, John had this to say.

1st letter of John 4:1-3; “My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit, (My words are spirit) but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc.”

2nd letter of John verses 7-10;.“Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ.”

We all know where to find the teaching of the anti-christ that Jesus was not a true human being, which has been spread ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Over the centuries the false teaching of the anti-christ continued to evolve, as the followers of the anti-christ became more enlightened and harder to deceive. In Alexandria, by the second century, "Docetism," the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out.

But still, there persisted the belief that their false Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and having to go to the toilet, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: “It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion.” Satan must have had some trouble trying to tempt this false Jesus of theirs into turning stones into bread.

Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the members of the universal church, love to use as one of their authorities when trying to defend one of their their false doctrines.

Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother’s vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it.

Clement was a saint in the universal church, which was established by King Constantine, from a rag-tag group of insult hurling religious bodies, who called themselves christians. Eventually, sick to the stomach with their constant quarreling and abuse toward each other, Constantine summond all the leaders of those groups to the first ever "World Council of churches," where, in 325 AD, some 300 years after the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ had been firmly established in Jerusalem, the non-christian, and almost certainly theologically illiterate Constantine, established his universal church, which has nothing to do with the Jesus as taught by the apostles.

Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clement's life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.

"ERRONEOUS--HIGHLY SUSPECT," matey, you can say that again----and again ------- and again. But by then the falsehood was firmly established and its seeds had taken root in all the nations of the world. The Lord now has need of some good gardeners, to help root out those noxious weeds.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by ciel_perdu

Jesus himself did not ask people to subscribe to certain beliefs in order to follow him, and I don't think a strict dogma of beliefs was really on the disciples minds either. I honestly see from reading their writings, that what they cared about most, was people listening to, and practicing the truth that Jesus spoke. I believe the rest is not of eternal significance, in that it is all mainly theological.

Early Christians cared so much about following what Jesus taught because they believed he was the Christ. People don't get immaculately conceived and resurrected from the dead everyday. Their faith and devotion to Jesus' teachings hinged on the fact of Jesus being the one, true Messiah. That's why Jesus has always been worshiped as God's Son, and why they preached about him all over the world, and were willing to die.

As Paul states, "If Christ is not risen, then our preaching is in vain"

[DivineLove]

Originally Posted by S-word

The universal church of King Constantine was formed from a rag-tag group of quarrelling and insult hurling religious bodies, that called themselves Christians. King Constantine, finally sick to the stomach with their constant bickering, called together all the heads of those bickering bodies to the first ever “World Council of Churches” where, under the dominating presence of the non-christian and almost certainly theologically illiterate King Constantine, the universal church was established in 325 AD, some 300 years after the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ had been established in Jerusalem.

S-Word,
You seem very passionate, about Jesus and his teachings. I admire that.

I do not have a religious background, and neither was my family particularly spiritual or religious. They are just very simple and practical people.

So for the bulk of my life, I knew very little about Jesus, or any religion. In my 20's, I followed Eastern teachings, for about 10 years or more. And then a couple of years ago, I stumbled across some channeled teachings, given through a medium, in the 1920's, by the name of Mr. James E. Padgett.

In these teachings, Jesus gave many lessons, on the afterlife, on the various spirit planes, on the nature of God, and His Attributes. On Divinity. The human soul. On almost every single spiritual subject of importance.

It was that work, which had inspired me, and I began to seek God's Divine Love, through prayer, calling on His Holy Spirit.

And it was mainly through these works, that I came to believe that Jesus was most certainly, a true person. That he did exist. He gave an account of his life, his early ministry. Other spirits, had confirmed many things as well.

Many people here, have dismissed the channeled teachings, given by Jesus, through Mr. Padgett, as either false or the work of the devil.

But I will ask you S-Word - can something, that is false, or the work of the devil, cause me to seek God? To pray for His Divine Love, to enter my soul?
Lead me closer to God?
Aren't false teachings, supposed to lead me away from God, and not directly to him, which prayer makes possible.

I think that is the true measurement, of something. A teaching, a belief, a practice. Whatever you wish to term it. If it brings you closer to God, then surely, whatever that is, it must be good, and it must be true.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by S-word

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Hi S-word!

Thanks for quoting those scriptures. I like the part where Paul goes to a meeting of Roman philosophers, where they would discuss different spiritual ideas, much like we do here. Paul then explains to them where he's coming from.

"Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: 'People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious (spiritual)... "

You can read the rest in Acts chapter 17, it's pretty interesting.

I imagine our reaction to Paul's speech would have been much like the Romans there who heard it..

"When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered"

Didn't we all sneer when we heard David Koresh claimed to be the God? Of course we did, because it's ridiculous. Same thing with Jesus, most of us would think Paul was crazy if we were there in Athens at the time.

Originally Posted by DivineLove

S-Word,
You seem very passionate, about Jesus and his teachings. I admire that.
I do not have a religious background, and neither was my family particularly spiritual or religious. They are just very simple and practical people.
So for the bulk of my life, I knew very little about Jesus, or any religion.

But I will ask you S-Word - can something, that is false, or the work of the devil, cause me to seek God? To pray for His Divine Love, to enter my soul? Lead me closer to God?

In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, “You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us.”

Then in Galatians 1: 6; Paul says again, “I am surprised at you! In no time at all you are deserting the truth and are accepting another gospel.

All those people who have been led away from the truth that leads to salvation, by the false teaching of the anti-christ, which refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, and who believe that their god has never raised to eternal life a human being, for if they are not immortal gods, who have lived for eternity and came down and entered the womb of some supposed virgin, where their father created for them a human like body in which they could walk the earth disguised as human beings, then there is no evidence, (According to their false doctrines) that they can be raised from death to eternal life, and yet those poor deceived souls seem quite happy in their false god and false saviour.

Aren't false teachings, supposed to lead me away from God, and not directly to him, which prayer makes possible.

Yep! They are designed for that very purpose, and they do the job for which they have been designed. One only has to look to the many different and ridiculious beliefs that pervade the mines of man, who all pray to their individual and helpless gods, and who wallow in the ecstasy of their self deception.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Hi S-word!

Thanks for quoting those scriptures. I like the part where Paul goes to a meeting of Roman philosophers, where they would discuss different spiritual ideas, much like we do here. Paul then explains to them where he's coming from.

"Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: 'People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious (spiritual)... "

You can read the rest in Acts chapter 17, it's pretty interesting.

I imagine our reaction to Paul's speech would have been much like the Romans there who heard it..

"When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered"

Didn't we all sneer when we heard David Koresh claimed to be the God? Of course we did, because it's ridiculous. Same thing with Jesus, most of us would think Paul was crazy if we were there in Athens at the time.

I believe that if you, Like Saul/Paul had been struck blind by the appearamce of the brilliant glorified body of the Second Adam, and heard the voice of that Brilliant Being answer your question, "Who are you Lord?" with the words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute," you too might believe in the resurrection of the dead, instead, like those people who would tell us that we should eat, drink, and be merry, for tommorrow we are going to die, and that the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by S-word

I believe that if you, Like Saul/Paul had been struck blind by the appearamce of the brilliant glorified body of the Second Adam, and heard the voice of that Brilliant Being answer your question, "Who are you Lord?" with the words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute," you too might believe in the resurrection of the dead, instead, like those people who would tell us that we should eat, drink, and be merry, for tommorrow we are going to die, and that the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.

Yes, we should eat, drink and be merry because we're going to die one day. No sense in wasting this life in hate and self-flagellation, or letting ancient myths cause us to lived a life of paranoia based on our knowledge of some 'secret truth' others don't get, and separating ourselves from others who might believe a different myth. Religion divides. Better to enjoy each other and see the best come out in ourselves and each other.

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Yes, we should eat, drink and be merry because we're going to die one day. No sense in wasting this life in hate and self-flagellation, or letting ancient myths cause us to lived a life of paranoia based on our knowledge of some 'secret truth' others don't get, and separating ourselves from others who might believe a different myth. Religion divides. Better to enjoy each other and see the best come out in ourselves and each other.

Well said Seawolf.

John 14
Jesus Comforts His Disciples
1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.


In Christian theory Yewah needed to sacrafice his human part so he
impregnated Marian/Mary thrue Virtue conceived a part of him to sacrafice for the sinners and saints also who were left in a state of purgatory not in heaven not in hell. His main goal was to be flesh overcome the temptations we might face and then get sacrificed for our deeds. whe he passed on he left his spirit, This is what the Trinity is Father,Son and Holy Ghost. Seperate yet one. Like the Madien,Mother and Crone.3 in one. Yeshua prayed in the garden of gethsemane to his spiritual half deeply inward search of if he didnt have to die. so 3,seperate 1 in the same. Like we have a Body Mind and Spirit. Through meditation we can ask ourselves questions and recieve answers. Just Yewah had the power as a diety to seperate the 3. Out of Body experiances we can seperate 2. But not 3 yet.
I am not a fundamentalist either. LOL
I think the Trinity is the most confusing part of Christianity for me and many people to grasp.